Fri, 01 Sep 95 07:28:00 CDT

I took the liberty to compile our messages into one, for ease of delivery
and compilation.
From: David McFadzean
Subject: Re: FW: FW: Question
Date: Thursday, August 31, 1995 10:16PM

>Why does the idea of nonlinear development make evolution hard to


>Do you think you grew in height at a linear rate as a child?


>>The earth is assosiated with the universe.


So that means the earth is dying and losing order along with the universe,
not continuing to gain order.

>>No, but eventually, only one will have all the money, and eventually he
>>become poor like everyone else. Yet evolution cannot explain how that
>>came about!

>Yes, one person may get all the money and he will eventually become
>poor. Just like life on earth evolving complexity but eventually
>dying. Can't you see the analogy?

You never explained how the money came about!

>>>My point is that you were wrong about Hitler being an atheist. He was

>>He might have believed he was a Christian, but he was not! That is my

>You changed your point. You said he was an atheist. Do you think all
>non-Christians are atheists?

No. I didn't say that. I stated that he was other than a Christian, and
generally he was more closely related to an atheist (possibly a deist).

>>>Actually new genes have appeared. There were no human genes 100 million
>>>years ago and now there are.

>>Source? Big assumption! I could say a lot of things.

>The source for new genes is the twin processes of variation and selection.

A false theory. Every thing in evolution is based upon another false theory
or an inaccurate one. You are working on the assumption that the age of the
earth is at least 100 myo.

>>>Maybe the oldest thing you have is 5000 years old, but the oldest thing I
>>>have is this fossil which is approx. 380 million years old.

>>There is a lot lot lot more information stating the Bibles age, besides

>Using a bunch of "lot"s in a row doesn't make it so.

Ah! There is "only enough evidence (though in question) to prove evolution
as would fit in a coffin." And there is the testamony of millions of
Christians to tell you the reality of Christ, and that they have experienced
His reality. There is not one speck of macro evolution occuring today, nor
50 years ago nor 500 years ago!

>Where does the bible say it is 5000 years old? That is ridiculous when
>you think about it, why would an author write "this book is 5000 years

I never said one of the writers said "this book is 5000 years old." I said
it points itself to be around that age. Read the geneologies and do a little
adding. It has a few hints and clues of it's own telling it's age. Actually
the oldest book is around 4500 years old. Note: The author is God, and their
were many writers.

>I suggest you read "The Blind Watchmaker" by Richard Dawkins. He explains
>very well why that argument is totally fallicious. Actually it is the
>best book on evolution I ever read.

I will go get it from the library this weekend.

>>>OK, what percentage believes in evolution in your estimation?

>>I haven't really the foggiest. I know a lot of creation scientists, and

>I you haven't the foggiest, than you really have no way of saying
>my estimate of 99.9% isn't true.

I am stating that I seriously doubt that that estimation isn't true! I nor
you could really give an accurate guestimation.

>It was accurate enough to evolve random programs into virtual creatures
>that survived in their environment. Proof by example.

First of all, it all took intelligent design.

Second, to incorperate the universe and the Big Bang, you would have to
allow the computer to appear out of no where, then have it write it's own
programs! It would never happen! If you say it would, I don't think that you
should be saying that God is the insane one!

Third, a lot of things can be simulated on computer, but we have no idea of
how accurate anything is until we see it happen! Aircraft simulations aren't
trusted. The aircraft is extensively tested and retested before it is even
aloud to leave the ground! Then hours more tests are done in the air,
because you cannot account for every little variable on a computer.

Fourth, you invented the perfect environment for these compucreatures! You
were also the one to set into motion the evolutionary process, and your
programming nurtured them to life!

Fifth, for credibility, why don't you send your code to ICR or CRF, and also
maybe some Universities and evolutionary institutes?

>I think your view of God is at least as limited and clueless as my
>view of the Big Bang. If you are going to criticize me for not knowing
>how the Big Bang worked, you had better be prepared to tell me how
>God was able to create something from nothing.

I am totally prepared! The Bible said He created it with the words of his

I suppose you're going to use the argument next, who created God? No one, it
is not necessary! The Word says that He is the "Beginning and the End, the
Alpha and Omega". His word states that He si eternal! You 'll say that is
poppy-cock, I tell you, it is not. You need to take God out of you're three
dimensional box, and allow Him to be who He is! We could go all the way back
to our beginning arguments if you really want to... As humans in sin, the
mind is so limited and so blinded, and unable to comprehend the infinity of
His Majesty.

>>>OK, if you reinterpret the word to mean "race" instead of "generation"
>>>then it is true. But you can always reinterpret a passage so that it
>>>is true. No wonder you think the bible is infallible. No matter what
>>>it actually says, you can interpret it to fit with your preconception.

>>Actually I took it upon myself to find out what the word generation means
>>this context. It is from the Latin word "genei" which means seed or stock:

>>Which the true interpretation means race, so therefore the NIV and KJV
>>have a bad word for the translation, but this is best suited for the
>>who translated it at the time.

>But don't you assume the bible is true?

No, I know it is true! It has gone beyong faith now... Besides, what does
your question have to do with the above discussion?

>>>What kind of explanation would you like? How about this: at the time
>>>humans were migrating from central europe into what is now France. There
>>>were only a few hundred humans in France at the time, but the horses
>>>had lived there for thousands of years.

>>If you can interpret evolution and make up stories how you want, I can see

>>how it is infalable. (Just like the Bible right?)

>No, evolution is a theory, the bible is a book. Evolution is not
>interpreted, it is modified to fit the facts. The bible interpreted
>to fit the facts.

Not really. If you take the literal translation, it generally fits the facts
and walks hand in hand with science. If the Bible disagreed with Copurnicus
I am sure his theory would have been tossed a long time ago.

>Do you have any reason to believe there were more humans than horse
>in France at the time? If so, why?

No, there was probably more horses in France. My point is, is that somewhere
in civilization, there had to have been thousands of humans, and they should
be very easy to find.___________

>>>It depends on how you interpret the bible.

>>I gave you scripture, read it. There is no interpetation to it, just read
>>it, all of it, and understand your Jewish history. Overall, the Holy
>>reveals the ultimate Truth.

>You are deluded if you think you don't interpret the bible. It is
>written in language, isn't it? To read language, you have to
>interpret it.

So read it and interpret it like it says, don't use this as a cop out. If
you use this, you could easily say every part of the Bible is false just by
"interpreting" it to mean everything bad. But due to the general context, we
know that it is not in any way falable.

>>>God makes fools out of the Christian priests every time he creates a
>>>natural disaster that kills thousands of innocent people.

>>I think you should read Job and Ezekiel so that you may come to an
>>understanding that God does not kill innocent people. "Not one can be
>>innocent.". So how does he make fools of them? Let me know what you're
>>of reasoning is and I will be glad to give you scripture and translation
>>help you understand the Truth.

>Good people die horrible deaths every day. To deny that fact is to
>be deluded. If God is real, he mocks the people that worship him.

First I would like to go on note as saying "good" people don't make it to
heaven! It does not matter how "good" a person is! The only way to escape
the comming judgement is to come to the Lord Jesus Christ.___________

God mocks no one who worships Him. In fact, He rejoices! I encouraged you to
read Job, apparently haven't yet. We find that Satan is the destroyer and
deciever, and he is using one of his old tricks on you. We find in Job that
God allows certain things to happen, he doesn't deliberately go and smite
people for pleasure... This is a sick notion. Did you read that portion in
Ezekiel I pointed out to you? No. Read Psalm 91______ and Romans 8, God
promised that He would provide the strength to overcome every obstacle, and
if it is greater than we can bear, then He promises that He will not allow
His children to have to deal with it. Yes, Peter, Steven and most of the
martyrs died horrible deaths, but if you read the Word of God you will find
that they did it joyfully! If a child of God dies a horrible death, there is
a reason, God knows things that you nor I could ever understand. Besides,
death to a Christian is merely passing from life to Life! It is the ultamate
healing and release! You could never point a finger at God and expect to
win, He is the author of life, and has the right to do as He pleases, but in
His love, mercy, and compassion, he spares a wicked world, in hope that more
will come to know His love.

If you want to know about horrible deaths, listen to this testamony:
Around eight years ago, a Russian girl went to school, carrying her
Bible. That day the Russian soldeirs came to the school and lined every
child up against the wall, then called them forward one by one and told them
to curse Jesus Christ and announce their defiance and disbelief in Him.
Finally it was the girls turn, Bible in hand, she stepped forward. The
Russian soldier in his rage grabbed the Bible in his hand and through it to
the floor, then stomped on it. The girl began to tear, eyes watering she
knelt to the floor, and picked up her Bible. The Russian soldeir removed the
gun from it's holster. The girl began to wipe the dirt of of the Bible as
she sobbed. The soldier put the gun to her head and demanded that she
renounce her faith. She refused and clung to her Bible even tighter and then
kissed it. It was at that point that the soldier shot her in the head at
point blank. Her body slumped to the ground, Bible in hand. The children
continued to walk forward stepping over the body, then they cursed Christ.

Horrible isn't it? I know a lot of people who have deid, would you like to
read another one? How about the young Pastor in the Philipines? When
somebody walked into his church and shot him, leaving behind a 28 year old
wife and a baby. Want details? Needless to mention, the wife is stronger in
her faith now, than ever! It was only Christ who could relieve her pain.
This is the age that end time prophesy is being fulfilled.

In Him,