Re: virus: Consciousness and Will (was "Maxims")

psypher (overload@fastmail.ca)
Tue, 18 May 1999 10:35:15 -0400 (EDT)

...I need some clarity here. I think I object to several things, but I want to make sure we've got some common terminology before I go spouting off.

As such, when
> talking about how "all things" are abstracted to an "at once", we
> speak of *freedom* (not "chaos").

..."Freedom" implies [to me] room to move, potential variability, a set of potential options. Chaos has two meanings which I acknowledge: [1] (from the physycs of dynamic systems) - not being subject to prediction.
[2] having unlimited potential.

...freedom a ground to move *in*, chaos doesn't. I think we're trying to code the same concept though.

This is true precisely because the
> "sum of all CHANCE" (not the sum of all "order") is the symbolic
> *CONSTRUCT* called *order*.

...okay. I'm with you on order as a symbolic construct, but apparently somewhere else on the composition of order. I think this stems from your use of the word "chance". I'm not sure what you mean by it. Traditionally, chance has been used as a label for all the inputs to a dynamic system which have not been accounted for, but that's just using [chance] as a symbol for [ignorance] and with the death of the mechanical universe we're left with an indeterminate construct anyways.
...in my symbol set:

[Chance] = the limits of an abstraction [ie. those relations which cannot be accounted for by the capabilities of a given consciousness. These relations are not even deducible in principle within the frame of facilities of abstraction of the given entity]

[Order] = an expression of will, the deliberate relation of constructs

[Abstraction] = a synthesis of inputs

[Construct] = a deliberate [willed] relation

As such, freedom includes the freedom to
> establish order from chance by way of consciousness (see post on
> quality).

...I would say that order is established from chaos. Order sometimes arises out of chaos spontaneously because limited systems seek homeostasis. But it's only order if somebody notices, otherwise it's just a momentary stability [a node] in a larger flux.

> Because of this, it is wrong to call consciousness "will". *Will*
> is the construct, order, which justifies chance (by way of
> consciousness) as that which exists contrary to freedom (destroying
> freedom for "chaos").

...I've got your assertion [first sentence] but your explanation is a bit muddy to me.

Thus, you suggest that consciousness arises
> from chaos and institutes an ordering called "incarnate existence";
> though the fact of the matter is that chaos can neither allow for
> consciousness nor destroy it, and incarnate existence (or *Being*)
> must pre-exist will so as to maintain an objective existence.

...oh no. If this descends into Sartre I'm going to scream. ...existence is subjective. The precursor to everything is the statement

I AM.

...not the will to power or anything else, the simple will TO BE.

-psypher

>
> Brett Lane Robertson
> Indiana, USA
> http://www.window.to/mindrec
> MindRecreation Metaphysical Assn.
> BIO: http://members.theglobe.com/bretthay
> ...........
> Put your item up for auction! Bid on hot opportunities! Click HERE
> to view great deals!:
> http://www.utrade.com/index.htm?MID=59876



http://fastmail.ca Fastmail's Free web based email for Canadians