[Fwd: virus: Religion & Logic]

Ken Pantheists (kenpan@axionet.com)
Fri, 19 Apr 1996 01:27:14 +0000

Please bear with me while I continue to obsess on this thread.

John A wrote:
> Religion and logic both begin with ideas that are taken as true without
> proof. ................ There is nothing
> wrong with this statement; it is prefectly true.

I am in total agreement with you on this. :)

.......Logic uses facts discovered
> through experimentation. Logic lays aside awe and bias and tooks through
> an undistorted looking glass. Logic does not give an immediate, easy
> answer to questions such "does god exist?" or "is there life after
> death?". It does not because there are not enough facts to feasably
> deduce this. As it stands now, logical arguements can be made for and
> against the existence of god. The lesser arguements are begining to
> become weak, however.
> --

This is a good point

> Both religion and logic attempt to explain the world. Religion attempts
> this from a substratum of ignorance, awe and bias.

So do most forms of creative expression. Music, visual art and
performing arts all rely on awe and bias to make their point. It is also
known as the "expression of the sublime". It's a little harsh to use the
word ignorance though. It's simply a different mode using different
tools for a different end. Logic explains the world. Creative expression
explains *you* in the world.

Primitive humans
> attributed human qualities to nature, therefore god became
> anthropomorphic. They knew nothing about nature, so they used their
> imaginations.

The god(s) (I assumed you were not refering to just the jewish or
christian one) may also have become anthropomorphized because they were
extensions of human desires, lusts, perversions and virtues. The Gods of
ancient greece raped, fucked, killed, and cannibalized because these are
aspects of our psyche that haunt us; that beg for expression. (These
themes are present in all the religions I've encountered) The gods offer
us an outlet and a vocabulary to discuss them. But there are also a
number of immaterial gods and animal spirits and multiform gods that
were skipped over in your statement (minor nit-picky point) :)

Why do I banter on like an out-of-control-ass? I've asked myself the
same question- I hope you guys don't think I'm a religious freak or
something. I just get sensitive when I read "primitive" and "ignorant"
associated with a very human mode of expression. (this is not a personal
flame against John, but something I find in sciences in general) Comedy
and Tragedy are ancient greek religious rites. We participate in them
every time we plunk $8.50 down for movie ticket. Instead of ritualizing
the greek grape harvest we ritualize the oil industry, or the cold war.

John made a statement that logic provides an undistorted looking glass
for us to look through- I think he meant lens, a looking glass is a
mirror, which would provide an undistorted reflection of yourself. I
think logic is a great lens but a lousy mirror.

Hmmmm. I think I may have stepped into a big pit there. I remember a
couple of postings on inference and belief. To be honest I couldn't
follow all of it because there were a few terms I've never seen before.
Any thoughts (help) on this?