Re: [Fwd: virus: Religion & Logic]

John A (
Fri, 19 Apr 1996 18:04:24 -0500

Ken Pantheists wrote:
> > Both religion and logic attempt to explain the world. Religion attempts
> > this from a substratum of ignorance, awe and bias.
> So do most forms of creative expression. Music, visual art and
> performing arts all rely on awe and bias to make their point. It is also
> known as the "expression of the sublime". It's a little harsh to use the
> word ignorance though. It's simply a different mode using different
> tools for a different end. Logic explains the world. Creative expression
> explains *you* in the world.
Creative expression comes from a sense of awe, but it may stem from
other feelings as well(ie sadness, serenity, altered states of
conscience). Religion grew upon ignorance of the natural world; ancient
peoples were ignorant of the physical process of thunder, so they
created Zeus to explain it. The difference between these two is the
weight of thier concepts. No one has ever been burnt upon a stake for
heresy because they preffered Tchaikvsky's 5th symphony to Beethoven's 9th.

> Primitive humans
> > attributed human qualities to nature, therefore god became
> > anthropomorphic. They knew nothing about nature, so they used their
> > imaginations.
> The god(s) (I assumed you were not refering to just the jewish or
> christian one) may also have become anthropomorphized because they were

You assume correctly.

> extensions of human desires, lusts, perversions and virtues. The Gods of
> ancient greece raped, fucked, killed, and cannibalized because these are

Can't they arrest you for saying "fuck"?

> But there are also a
> number of immaterial gods and animal spirits and multiform gods that
> were skipped over in your statement (minor nit-picky point) :)

These would come from a sense of awe for nature, just less bias. Most
animal spirits are said to be upright like humans.

> flame against John, but something I find in sciences in general) Comedy
> and Tragedy are ancient greek religious rites. We participate in them
> every time we plunk $8.50 down for movie ticket. Instead of ritualizing
> the greek grape harvest we ritualize the oil industry, or the cold war.

At a certain point, rituals cease to be religious and they become a part
of secular culture. The spiritual source of the rite vanishes.

> John made a statement that logic provides an undistorted looking glass
> for us to look through- I think he meant lens, a looking glass is a

I did mean lens.

> mirror, which would provide an undistorted reflection of yourself. I
> think logic is a great lens but a lousy mirror.
Objectivity is what makes logic work. When you look at yourself
objectively, you see what you really are.

John Aten

A stopped clock is exactly right every twelve hours