>
> In a message dated 96-11-02 11:14:16 EST, you write:
>
> > > > > > >On the other hand, religions often restrict people in their
> actions, thus
> > > > > > >curtailing their enjoyment of life. I am an athiest because I
> believe in
> > > > > > >maximum freedom for everyone - religion goes against this belief,
> and so
> > > > > > >I must oppose it!
>
> Religions do two different things: talk about God and provide a moral code.
> You (as an atheist) are talking about moral code here, rather than God. And
> your moral code is "maximum freedom" for everone. Isn't that Free Will, the
> basic tenet of Christianity?
>
> Thus, your belief meme is a variant of one of Christianity's memes (or vice
> versa).
>
> Marc Miller
>
>
>
>
I'm afraid that my main point of the argument is that Christianity (but not just
Christianity, I'm purely carrying on your example) does not advocate total
free will.
Kenneth Boyd added:
> WHICH Christianity's memes???
>
> Certainly not the Calvinist branches of Protestantism. Many other branches
> gasp in horror at this one precisely *because* the Calvinist branches
> insist on the total *absence* of free will with respect to "salvation".
>
> //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
> / Towards the conversion of data into information....
> /
> / Kenneth Boyd
> //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>
Thanks Ken for putting that in the my abscence over the weekend.
Let me cite an example to support what I have said. Some of you might have
heard of two famous cities: Sodom, and Gommorah (sp?). Both of these
cities were supposedly destroyed by the wrath of God, because they refused
to follow his moral code. Now in my books, morality is something that an
individual can do what he likes with, because then maximum freedom for the
maximum number can be attained. Wiping the people out who make a stand for
their freedom is slightly reminiscent of various Fascist and Communist
dictatorships which litter this world's history.
Another example, which I have posted before is that the Bible also advocates
the putting to death of Homosexuals. Personally, I'm not gay, but a couple of
my friends are, and strangely, they're not Christians. I know that the
modern Christian faith would not support such actions now, but the fact
remains that it was still stated in the Bible as the "word of God"!
How about this one: Despite the fact that I don't agree with most religions,
I will not prevent anyone believing something, because it is their own
free will to believe what they want. Therefore, I would say that preventing
someone from believing in something is a curtailment of their freedom!
So perhaps saying that any man who has a genital disfigurement may not
join the followers of Christianity is pretty unfree as far as I can see.
That's in the Bible too by the way, and admittedly probably not practiced
today - the point is though, it's still there.
Here's a good one: Did you know that if a woman who is having her period
sits on any of your furniture, then you have to take it out and burn it?
That, I believe, is in Leviticus somewhere, it might be chapter 13, but
I can't remember.
Well, does that clear up why I don't believe that Christianity does not
preserve freedom, and free will?
Drakir
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Richard Jones
jonesr@gatwick.geco-prakla.slb.com
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"We are the New Breed,
We are the Future."
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