Re: virus: TT and The Absolute Truth

Tadeusz Niwinski (
Tue, 05 Nov 1996 16:23:46 -0800

David McF wrote:
>I'm trying to have a reasonable discussion here and you're trying to turn
>it into a fight. Look at what you wrote: "Nothing would be possible if pi
>was once 3.14 and some other time 8.25." Is this supposed to be an argument
>against my position? Well it isn't my position.

Let's not discuss who is trying to turn this discussion into a fight.
You can always throw me out of this list any time you like -- don't
forget you are the Host here.

>OK, I agree Nature is incredibly consistent and we can call that consistency
>TT if you like. Let's assume the objective reality (OR) exists and it has
>the property of being incredibly consistent (TT).

I'd rather call it Absolute Truth but apparently this name is taken.
What do YOU call this incredible consistency we are talking about?
David, please answer that. Jason -- and everybody else -- can you
also give your suggestions for what TT can be named?
(I hate to call it TT :-))

>>Does the objective reality has this property (I call TT and you are welcome
>>to name as you like) that causes it to be predictable and knowable? Can you
>>add your wisdom to a mutually agreeable definition of this peculiar
>Do you agree that truth is a property of statements about OR and TT and not
>a property of OR or TT?

You did not answer my question and I will answer yours:

Truth -- as I understand it -- is not OR. It is TT. Truth is
a property of OR. What do you mean by "statements":
(1) do they need our brains in order to exist or
(2) they exist independently of us?

If (1) then I agree: our statements about OR and TT can be true or not.
And with some statements we may never know if they are true or false.
Absolute Truth in that meaning does not exist.

If (2) then statements about OR are the truth itself, or the Absolute Truth.

Now, that I think of it, if (2) then there is no room for a lie in Nature,
or the Nature is always true. The Nature does not lie! A lie is our
invention (as a matter of fact evolution also invented lies, Richard
Dawkins describes as "natural deception" or "mimicry").

I suggest we adopt a mutually agreeable name for TT and move on to

Tad Niwinski from TeTa where people grow
There is no Absolute Truth, although we are getting closer and closer to IT.