Re: virus: Re: alternative model

Lior Golgher (
Thu, 28 Nov 1996 23:58:34 -0800

Martin Traynor wrote:
> > Kenneth Boyd asked:
> >
> > Question: is Virtual Reality formally distinguishable from Subjective
> > Reality?
> > =====================================================================
> > -You knowingly participate in virtual reality.
> Prove that you do not also participate in it unknowingly. A virtual
> reality that was created around you with subatomic resolution and
> rich and consistent would be subjectively indistinguishable from
> reality.

That's right. In fact, once you grok artificial realities like VR,
theaters and play-grounds, in which you always willingly participate,
groking that reality is a game you didn't choose to play is only a pace
away. The immidiate second pace is the decision whether you willingly
continue to play the game, change its rules or utterly quit it by
commiting sucide. Then if you willingly & knowingly play the game,
you'll become good at it, as Richard once explained quite well.

There's a great short article called 'New Civilization as an Infinite
Game' available on New Civilization Net, which manifests the idea of
life\reality as a game. I believe the URL should be
If it isn't it, try going here then go to the
introduction and from there to the article.

> > -Subjective reality is a repository of your experience-- even virtual
> > experience.
> Agreed, but can you prove that it is composed of anything *other*
> than virtual reality?
Rhetorical question - No you can't, it's an axiom you can never prove.
And yet if you think of it, you'd come to the conclusion that this axiom
isn't quite bad, since they're only two options:
1. That what you constantly precieve as reality isn't artificial - and
then acting according to that axiom wouldn't cause any troubles.
2. That what you constantly precieve as reality IS artificial - and then
anything you do whatsoever isn't 'correct'
Anyhow, it is highly important to remember that it's an axiom, and that
it can't be proved.

> > - The two are necessarily different because one can be used to construct
> > the other.
> But can that difference be shown formally? I don't think it can.
My VR experience summed up in blowing up my brother, my father and the
dragon in the last moment. I also flew a WW1 junk with an idiot French
pilot stuck in my ass. Anyway, it is possible to construct a VR game in
which you can walk down to the 'game center' or whatever and play there
some VR games, it's only a matter of profitability caused by public
interest. In other words, you can play a game within a game, just like
you can dream that you go to sleep, and yet even if both games\dreams
are within another game\dream they could always be differentiated one
from the other.

Towards the clarification of my thesis...