RE: virus: MEME UPDATE: To Censor Or Not?
Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:47:39 -0600 (CST)

On Mon, 16 Dec 1996, Schneider John wrote:

> David pape wrote:
> > >Obvious sources of nondetermination:
> > > Quantum mechanics. [Granted, magnifying it to macroscopic
> > >level is difficult. But not impossible--cf. Schrodinger's Cat.]
> >
> > Excellent point sir! I'm a real beginner in QM... almost totally
> > hammered by even the simplest parts of the maths. I'd very much
> > like to know what you think about the "universe cannot have per-
> > fect knowledge about how it works" proposal in my last posting.
> > Because... well, QM is very very accurate, but not totally so...
> > are there any physicists around who think that the reason you get
> > such bizarre effects as measurement collapsing the Schroedinger
> > equation is because... erm... we're at a level of detail where...
> > erm... maths can't take us any further? Where, due to the limited
> > ability of teh universe to compute its own nature, we're starting
> > to get odd results? I know this sounds like a shitty cop-out, but
> > I'm interested in the idea of humanity's search for truth reaching
> > an asymptotic gap from the Truth...


> Your suggestion sounds like it would relate well with Godel's
> incompleteness theorems, which I regret that I've never studied
> from a technical viewpoint before, so can't do anything more than
> mention it.

Among other places where Godel's incompleteness theorems work, any formal
system in predicate calculus with at least one predicate with two
arguments will do. This includes *ALL* of mathematics.

[Godel's Theorem can send Raving Religious Rightists into emotional
overload, when applied to the Word. There's enough of a formal core
there to apply Godel's Theorem.]

One of two things hold:
1) A true statement exists that cannot be proven.
2) A false statement exists that *can* be proven.

[or possibly both???]

That is, a reasoning system of sufficient complexity must be either
incomplete or inconsistent.

/ Towards the conversion of data into information....
/ Kenneth Boyd