Re: virus: MEME UPDATE: To Censor Or Not?

Alex Williams (
Tue, 17 Dec 1996 21:15:28 -0500 (EST)

Pape" at Dec 18, 96 01:19:25 am
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> the fuck? We still got each other's meaning. God, I'm glad I don't think
> according to the dictates of perfectly rigorous logic.

Twisted thought: Maybe you /do/ think according to the dictates of
perfectly rigorous logic. Applying Godel's Incompleteness to the very
concept of `perfectly rigorous logic' you'll find there are concepts
you'd still stumble over communicating. Maybe you're just as
perfectly rigourous as it gets, you just have the bad luck to keep
hitting things you have trouble with.

> 2- Maybe it's a problem with language. Remember that language eveolved
> to get an evolved biological organism by. So it needn't necessarily be able
> to phrase how the universe actually works at all. THUS: I think that I am a
> thing, yet I wouldn't consider all of my cells, intact but in different test
> tubes, to be me. Thus I am NOT the cells, I am the ARRANGEMENT of the cells.
> And if you respond by saying that you couldn't separate my cells without
> damaging them, I'll just claim that my CELLS aren't actually "things", as in
> distinct entities. But... language considers them and me as things. This is
> the sense in which I mean "There is no such thing as any([SPACE])thing".
> Because I reckon that all division of the universe into entities is done...
> by minds.
> Comments? These are pretty new thoughts for me, and I'd love to develop them
> a bit.
> They're the feedback result of "no such thing as Truth/Good/Bad" conclusions
> I drew from thinking about memes as a model for human thought.

I'm not sure this is entirely defensible. Take one barely
sub-critical mass of Plutonium. Take a second, exact duplicate of the
first. Examine them. Obviously distinct entities and obviously not
the /same/ entity. Bring them together. Now, note the rapid change
in state. Closely.

Obviously the universe has a consideration of those two masses as
seperate entities; if it didn't, there wouldn't have been that really
rather striking state change. The /names/ by which we call them
different things may be purely cursory but their seperable existances
are definitely meaningful.