Re: virus: conscious/subconscious (form. level 0)

John P. Schneider (
Fri, 27 Dec 1996 18:29:03 -0600

> OK. But where has memetics demanded the existence of phenomena
> that do not exist? Memetics hasn't demanded much of anything as
> of yet, which is why it is still speculation, not fantasy.
> It has demanded the existence of memes, and they haven't been
> proven to exist yet. The existence of memes is a precept and not
> a fact.
> Science demands the existence of electrons,
> Electrons were *discovered* to exist, they were not demaned to
> exist.

You are demanding their existence yourself when you claim that they
were *discovered*. All we really have are a bunch of phenomena, and
then a theory which requires the existence of electrons that is used
to describe these phenomena.

I think the problem you're having is that memes are (largely if not
entirely) nonphysical objects. You've mentioned Freud in a way that
suggests you support his ideas. But 'superego' is sort of like
'meme' in the sense that it is just useful to describe phenomena.
Do you also reject Freud on the basis that nobody has proven that
id, ego, and superego exist? Are they the only way to describe
psychoanalytical observations? I don't thinks so.... in fact,
the memetics/genetics combination may do a better job, and may
even be a bit more logical at face value than Freud's theory.

(Please note my background is not in psychoanalysisat all, so
comments, constructive ones, are more than welcome for the above.)

- JPSchneider