virus: Re: The Battle Continues

David Rosdeitcher (
16 Feb 97 20:45:56 EST

This post is about :
1) How con-artists rip people off by inverting objectivist axioms
2) How religion-oriented memetics leads to a Nazi police state.
3) Is CoV an organized scam or simply a group of individuals interested in
4)Why Brodie and his victim/supporters are getting their asses kicked in

The objectivist axioms-existence, consciousness, and identity-are concepts
that are self-evident in all conscious statements or actions. They are implicit
in all knowledge and need no proof or definition. Certain con-artists can rip
people off by inverting these axioms either explicitly or implicitly. By
understanding the axioms and how frauds are perpetrated by people who invert
them, one can prevent axiom-inverting con-artists from getting away with fraud.
(For an explanation of why these axioms are valid and why a situation where
"scientists someday find there is no free will" can't happen, read Leonard
Peikoff's "Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand".)

An example of inverting an axiom is shown by people who treat memetics as a
religion. Free will, a corollary of the 2nd axiom-consciousness, is treated as
non-existent in religion-based memetics. An idea behind religion-based memetics
is that our thoughts are not in our control since thoughts are just an
interaction of memes which compete with each other for survival. Supposedly,
according to such religious memetics, one reaches a higher level on the
evolutionary scale through an ongoing process of memes competing with one
another for space in one's ideosphere.The idea that our minds are controlled by
outside entities, leads to confusion and frustration from not trusting one's own
throught process.Someone infected with these ideas is likely look toward a
"higher authority" for guidance. If such a mentality spreads throughout society,
then many people would support a purported higher authority such as big
government to take care of them. The result, therefore, would be police state
dynamics such as those of Nazi Germany.
To see how this works, it is important to understand that there are 2 and
ONLY 2 philosophical systems of thought: Platonistic and Aristotelian.
Platonistic ideologies are characterized by
1. Existence of "higher realities" to the one we observe,
2. Inability to understand those realities with our minds and senses
3. Sacrificing oneself to a "higher cause".
4. Political structure in which the State controls individuals through deception
and force.
Aristotelian ideologies are characterized by:
1. Existence of only one reality.
2. Ability of the mind to figure out reality.
3. Good action benefits individuals, which are not subordinate to a "higher
4. Political structures should allow people freedom of thought and action.
The religion-based memetic ideas are Platonistic notions. For instance, "More
evolved memes that your mind may possess in the future" is the same as Plato's
"higher realities". And, "your thoughts are based on memes which are only
constructs of language and have nothing to do with reality" is the same as
Plato's "your mind is impotent to know true reality". These notions, if taken
to their conclusion, become woven into an integrated philosophical system that
encompasses all subject matter including politics. Such a system, if accepted by
enough people, can be used by a handful of dishonest people to manipulate and
control the masses.
CoV is NOT such an intentional political scam. In fact, most people are
here to discuss memetics and meet others who are like-minded. But, most people,
in general have tendencies to follow "higher authorities" and accept
Platonistic ideas. And, within the human population there is a small percentage
which manipulates others through people's authority-accepting and Platonistic
tendencies. So, just 1 or 2 people on an internet mailing list like CoV can
create a major epidemic in which a diseased form of religious thinking spreads
throughout society-unless it is contained.
Here is how this is happening at CoV: At CoV, there is often a pattern in
which someone starts a discussion by making an assertion (thesis) and that
assertion is countered by someone else taking a meme out of context (antithesis)
which causes the person making the assertion to become confused and have a
"belief crisis". This activity, in which some people induce confusion in others,
is very contagious as more and more people get "belief crises" and induce these
belief crises in others. If someone stays with this activity for a while, one
would get the hang of how it works and go off to start their own "CoV" as a
"master virus" and the whole process can replicate as a growing mind virus
spreads throughout the internet and beyond. The end result would be the
popularization of a highly evolved Platonistic belief system with a memetics
Certain people, such as Richard Brodie, are "master viruses" who
understand that the first step toward infecting people is to push them
off-balance by inverting objectivist axioms with claims such as:
1.It is good to hold contradictory beliefs (inversion of law of identity-3rd
2. All your thoughts are only 'distinction memes' and do not pertain to reality
(inversion of consciousness-2nd axiom)
Another trick he uses is called 'Plato's Cave', in which a guru tells his
disciples that just as people who are in a cave all their lives would not know
of a sunlit world, you the disciple do not know of a higher reality,"Follow me
to a higher level".
Such contradictory notions, especially in the context of dialogue, induce
"belief crises" that have an effect that is similar to a witch 'casting a
spell'. The group of people who are under the master virus' spell can then be
subtly influenced to give that master virus unearned money or power-and help the
master virus get more money and power. For instance, the master virus, who has a
following would have a tremendous advantage in projects such as multi-level
marketing operations or political campaigns. Draw your own conclusions about
what follows.
Something to know about master viruses is that not everything they say is
dishonest. For instance, Richard has a valid concept that whenever we talk or
think about something, we are seeing the world in a limited way, confined by the
constraints of language. This is good to know, since such use of language can
become habitual and keep people stuck in a rut in which they cannot see things
from a different perspective. However, this does not invalidate various concepts
expressed through language such as the objectivist axioms. The use of language
does not imply that all concepts are "just distinction memes" that distort
Ironically, Richard is making such reality-distorting distiction memes by
classifying me as a "Neo-Tech cultist". Neo-Tech is not a cult, but a
collection of concepts-some of which can be used to identify neocheaters such
as, in this case, master-viruses. Richard, as well as other neocheaters around
the world, are actually having belief crises, being faced with situations that
are completely foreign to them. In fact, before the identification of
neocheating became public knowledge just a few years ago, everyone, including
Ayn Rand and her objectivist followers, was impotent to identify neocheaters and
stop their neocheating.
The field of memetics is a study of ideas. A misunderstanding of ideas is
what has produced the various police states since Plato. But now, with the
understanding of how neocheaters invert the objectivist axioms to control
hoardes of people, such a mistake has a much smaller chance of happening again.

-David Rosdeitcher