Re: virus: a tangent

Tim Rhodes (
Sat, 22 Mar 1997 13:45:35 -0800 (PST)

On Sat, 22 Mar 1997, Dan Plante wrote:

> At 01:50 PM 3/21/97 -0800, Prof. Tim wrote:
> >Great story.
> >
> >"Lest ye can become as little children you will never enter the kingdom of
> >heaven." - attributed to J. Christ
> >
> >-Prof. Tim
> Ummmm......Tim? Is this supposed to pass for dialogue? That was a second
> attempt to clarify a point in my original post that you responded to.
> Should I clarify it further? Should I shut up? How am I supposed to
> extract the answers to these questions from the ramblings of
> Jesus-Christ-Almighty?

Sorry, Dan. Let me try and be less vague if I can (although I'm not
making any promises). You may still have to clarify though, I get the
feeling we may be talking at cross purposes.

You originally said:

> Seen as a co-dependant system (at this particular level of analysis),
the mind betrays an obvious vector to "infection". Disturb the limbic
system enough, and the "meme-sphere" will also be disturbed, resulting in
confusion. An undisturbed mind can be viewed as a set of ideas or memes
whose "inter- relatedness" or "sets of associations" is at its most
complex, and is largely static, or "settled" from a more fluid to a more
solid state.

(And this is where I jumped the gun. I had the impression you were making
a value judgement about what you are referring to here as "disturbed" vs.
"undisturbed" limbic systems. I also have problems with the part about
"An undisturbed mind can be viewed as a set of ideas or memes whose
'interrelatedness'... is at its most complex." I realize that this is
your definition (and I can agree with the second part easily), but I was
thrown off by the "at its most complex" clause. Let me finish with your
quote and then explain.)

Dan goes on to say:

> Limbic disruption, characterized by highly emotional states such as
fear, joy, hate and passion, or interruption, as with depression and
exhaustion, subverts this synergy to some extent. This causes the
meme-sphere to diverge from a tightly coupled, closed-loop link with its
motivator, which results in a certain degree of confusion or "flux", where
complex and intricate associations between memes are more difficult to
form or maintain.

Okay, I do agree with this. My question was, "is the static state good?"
(or at least that's what I meant to say) If, as you say the static,
undisturbed state is "at its most complex" then, is it necessary to
abandon that state in order to achieve higher levels of complexity? Is it
important to welcome times of "limbic disruption", of "highly emotional
states" in order to grow beyond the limits of your current "synergy"? I
think you may be implying that and I just missed it the first time (or I
may be completely off the mark). This is where I need you to clarify.

As for the Jesus quote, well, so many people here (and elsewhere) are so
busy pointing out the idiocy of Christians that they forget that there are
some real insights attributed to that Jesus character (and I use the word
"attributed" for a reason). "Lest you become as little children" has to
do with opening your mind up and seeing things as if it were the first
time. "The kingdom of heaven" to my thinking, is living a good,
enlightened (if you will) life. Having been raised in America, knee deep
in the Judeo-Christian tradition, I like to use its imagery once in a
while. I would suggest reading *just* the gospels, if you never have, BUT
DON'T BECOME A CHRISTIAN!!! (and if you do, don't come runnin' to me for

-Prof. Tim