Re: virus: Angelica de Meme

Tadeusz Niwinski (
Fri, 04 Apr 1997 16:31:09 -0800

Tony wrote:
>>>I dont believe you are jealous and yet you
>>>frequently post warnings of his manipulative motives, thus setting up
>>>cognitive dissonance in me.
>>Thank you, I am glad I do. Which postings do you have in mind? I'll be
>>glad to discuss something specific.
> The ones where you say
> "Richard is just a manipulative cunt who doesnt believe anything
>is real, he should be injected with special drugs to keep him alive so
>he can feel all the pain while his internal organs are removed and used
>for the benefit of others."
> ...I am paraphrasing and sumarising what I have got from a
>hundred or so postings. (this one has corrected my perceptions.)

You are putting *your* words in quotes, pretend they are mine and you call
it paraphrasing and summarising. The word "cunt" is not used very often,
even on this list, and you put it in my mouth. You suggest I am a sadist
demanding painful punishment for people who achieve something I am jealous
of. Is this a demo of "memetic engineering"?

Wouldn't it be simpler to say: thanks for reminding me that light can be
looked upon as a particle or as a wave?

> So you and Richard together serve to elicit more and deeper
>thinking about his book, is that what you mean?

There is no secret agreement between us and it is not part of a designed
virus to help sell his book. As Richard said, CoV is an exceptional group
of people worth talking to. There are often suggestions that this group is
too self-referential. In the subject of memetics I think it is a great
asset. These are real ideas of real people with real emotions and EGOs
(make the font five times bigger). No better place to watch memes. That's
why I like to use real quotes of what people said to illustrate my points.
Then their egos jump at me and call me names, which in /science of memetics/
is called "break the mirror if you don't like the picture" meme. There are
many other very sophisticated meme species to study here. It is not just an
out-of-a-book theory how memes should behave but a *real* test tube.

>>>>>May I remind you I am ready to run naked through buckinghham palace
>>>>>screaming "I must eat the queen's pussy, Take control, learn memetics"
> It was a joke. What I thought was a more amusing way of saying
>that I am ready to spread memetics to others.

That's why I asked "why"? The question is still open. I'll add more: Who
stops you from spreading memetics to others? Are there other ways of
spreading memetics aside from spreading HM's legs? What kind of help do you
expect from me? (I'm not going to help you in, you know what). What are
your plans, then?

>>About memetics. It occurred to me just recently that memetics is like
>>astrology. We know that the position of the stars when we are born is
>>different for different people and it may explain differences between us.
>>Nobody did any research on HOW it may influence us, although astrologers
>>claim they know.
> I dont follow. Surely you are not saying you believe in

Right, I do not believe in astrology. I do not believe memetic engineers
have anything to say about quality of life, what's good, what's bad,
*because* they understand memes. When a priest tells you what to do, he
claims, the wisdom comes from God. When a psychologist tells you about how
self-esteem works or what the state of "flow" is, it is based on research
and practice. When an astrologer tells you about your character based on
your birthdate it is based on some unidentified sources. What does a
memeticist base his assertions about purposeful life on? The fact that
ideas can be called memes and they spread is not enough information to teach
the Life-101 course. The information comes from some unidentified source.
What is the source?

>> A notion that you know
>>how to live because you know how to program peoples' minds seems to be
>>highly immoral to me.
> I agree. Im not sure where you suggest this notion comes from.

Nothing specific. I mention it just in case you run into some skilful
memetic engineer who will try to convince you that ALL ideas are dinky
little memes, search for truth is nonsense, reality is an illusion, morality
is hiding some harmful secrets she only knows about, holding conflicting
ideas is a post-rational virtue, and the quality of life comes from a $170 a
bottle cognac and fine cigars.

>I will read Branden's book if ever I come across it.

You will never come across it unless you look for it. How many times did
you have to hear about the VotM before you decided to read the book?

Regards, Tadeusz (Tad) Niwinski from planet TeTa (604) 985-4159