virus: Re: heaven's gate kooks

Ken Pantheists (
Fri, 06 Jun 1997 12:55:56 +0000

I don't know why I feel compelled to reply to the religious stuff on
this list. I guess I'm going a long way on my little knowledge...

Forgive me if I am repeating something that someone else may have
covered. I came onto this thread late.

Lafy Darkstar wrote:
At 09:46 PM 6/4/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Funny too... the thing that Jesus came down here on Earth to do (or so
>they tell me) was /to die/ for our sins. In the name of God. You've
>got to wonder why a typical Christian would then be _un_willing to do
>the same.

Because it's not infashion. And it takes a strong will to say, "I
in this, and you're not going to break me. No matter what I WILL hold
to me beliefs and die for them if needs be." Beliefs have become
transiatory, they are no longer a true part of us, just something to be
and thwon away when the next fad arrives.

I think "they" are holding out on whoever you were replying to. "They"
are giving only the bait (A guilt complex) based on some derivation of
some segment of Christianity (Maybe radical Protestant?) I don't know of
any Christian who would say "Jesus came down here in the name of God".
But many more would say that Jesus was an incarnation of God. You
know..."what if God was one of us?"

Anyway, the real reason I am responding to your post is to unravel your
conviction that martyrdom (or rather, dying for your beliefs) is no
longer in fashion. Did you know that young Arab men living in Israel's
Gaza Strip and the West Bank are guaranteed forty virgin wives and a
palace in Heaven if they die as a martyr?

Look at any one of the most recent headliner terrorists-- McVeigh, The
Shining Path, all of whome show conviction to their cause.

I think what you are sensing is a lack of, for lack of a better word,
"lack" in the lives of most North American Christians. Here,
Christianity is an insitutionalised mainstream ideology. Any christian
has a lot to lose if they try to usurp, supplant or work outside of the
Law. (Waco). In the days of saints and martyrs, the early christians
gambled with state execution because they chose an ideology that united
the slaves, women and disenfranchised of the affluent Roman Empire. Like
all underground movements-- the ones that foster martyrdom anyway-- thay
invest a lot of energy into the idea that somehow your life will no
longer be as miserable as it is. The prerequisite, of course, is a
genuinely miserable life. And the conviction to make it better by taking
absolute control over it (choosing to end it if it comes down to it).

  Ken Pantheists        
  Lurch In Vault Web Services

"If everything you know is wrong, then so are the scary parts, so relax." -Spider Robinson