Re: virus: Models

David McFadzean (
Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:21:13 -0600

At 01:20 AM 12/06/96 -0500, Eric Boyd wrote:

>I conceed... you are right. "Order" exists in the universe. However,
>recgonition of that order, as opposed to choas, is a human duality. The
>universe /is/. We just preceive some parts of it to have "order" and
>others not to.

It might be helpful to resurrect the meme notation: <X> is the meme
for X, to distinguish the two senses of order we are discussing.

Order exists in the universe, and <order> is a human invention, right?

>> >No, I'm saying that when they _lose_their_faith_, a void is created and,
>> >at least as it stands, reason itelf is not enough to fill the hole.
>> >Rather than face this, some people might jump...
>> Not if they are actually reasonable.
>hmmm. If you have good reasons, is it not "reasonable" to end your

Yes I can imagine some scenarios (like sacrificing yourself to save your
children). But we are talking about committing suicide because of loss
of faith, which is never reasonable as far as I can tell.

>> I can't speak for Zero, but the CoV was created in part to provide an
>> alternative for that memetic niche. It is supposed to be an extension
>> of reason and science that caters to those human needs that the traditional
>> religions currently fulfill. One definition of 'religion' that I find
>> particularly illuminating is 'an institution whose purpose is to provide
>> meaning to the lives of its adherents'.
>Nice. I would tend to shy away from the "institution" part... which is
>why I also don't like the "Church" part of CoV. Can we change the name
>to Religion of Virus? RoV

Did you have a bad experience with an institution as a child :-) But seriously,
what connotations of "institution" do you have? And why not "church"? Don't
most churches refer to the congregation, i.e. a group of people?

David McFadzean       
Memetic Engineer      
Church of Virus