List,
The term meme has not been definied to my satisfaction on this list. I have
illustrated my definition of "meme" in graphic form
(http://members.tripod.com/~Drahcir/memes/chainjpg2.jpgl) and defined them
most recently and most succintly as :
"I understand dichotomy to form memes, and that memes act according to
saltatation (one form remains stable until a more complex arrangement
occurrs and then the former is taken in by the latter...given up for the
more evolved form). The "inferior" meme, I think is crystalized by it's
sucssor--it's form is no longer open for further modification; it doesn't
exist anymore in one sense, it exists forever within the new form in another
sense...it is not "alive". Any living form is subject to change and this
flexability prevents it from being a meme in the truest sense; though, it
could be thought of as a carrier." (see Subject: RE: virus: Existence and Ego)*
If Eva (or anyone) can present a better definition of memes, then--by all
means--please do!
On the other hand, I do not see that " Memes have all kinds of natures and
contents". One could say that "cheesecake" has all kinds of natures and
contents. Therefore I do not think that I am " misunderstanding what memes
are, possibly confusing them
with mind viruses, which are a specific type of meme structure". I do
thank Eva for her contribution, however (" It's not possible to avoid
hosting memes in general"), which spoke to my question "Is there some way to
determine in a general way if we should encourage meme-infestation or
discourage it?". The question is still open for debate as to whether we
should encourage or discourage meme DEVELOPMENT (restated).
I think Eva may have misinterpreted the *intent* of my question. No hard
feelings? :)
Brett
* or, That which produces a more evolved form through the process of
dichotomy and saltation: The form produced which is a complex arangement
(of information) crystalized within a shell, or "carrier"--carrier being a
viable form of the meme in that the arrangement of said form is still
subject to change (through replication).
At 02:37 PM 9/13/97 -0700, you wrote:
>On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, Brett Lane Robertson wrote:
>> Prof Tim,
>> Are you saying that memes are both influenced by the person and that they
>> influence different people differently--that they are variable in their
>> *application*? While this would suggest that the exact "cost of relegating
>> yet another mental process to the realm of the meme" cannot be determined
>> (a) independently of the person, or (b) independently of the environment
>> (manifestation)...can they be determined by the meme itself (a flu bug has
>> different effects but is still a flu bug); or can we say in general that
>> memes do "this or that": Is there some way to determine in a general way if
>> we should encourage meme-infestation or discourage it?
>> For example: Do memes limit conscious choice? Do memes favor more complex
>> organisms at the detriment of average or below average survival? Do memes
>> create states of mystification and trance? Are memes energy hogs? (and I
>> say that all of these apply). If our psychological health can be improve
>> through the avoidance and/or proper utilization of a meme (through ego
>> choice?), what would that influence look like--I have proposed that meme
>> development be discouraged (though now I am not so sure).
>Brett--
>I think you're misunderstanding what memes are, possibly confusing them
>with mind viruses, which are a specific type of meme structure. Memes have
>all kinds of natures and contents; some are helpful to their hosts, some
>unhelpful, and some helpful in certain contexts. It's not possible to
>avoid hosting memes in general, except by ceasing thinking entirely. It
>is possible to select the memes one hosts to some extent.
>Each person is the sum of genetic and memetic factors interacting.
>Neither genes nor memes can be eliminated from the equation, though both
>can of course be affected in various ways.
>Eva
Returning,
rBERTS%n
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