Re: virus: Re: The saga continues!

Brett Lane Robertson (
Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:17:37 -0500

At 09:56 PM 9/14/97 -0700, you wrote:

>On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, Nathaniel Hall wrote:

>> What I mean by implictly is that in order to discover something it must
>> be out there to be discovered. That is an objective universe,( which is
>> the foundation of objectivism).

>Is it conceivable that there could, in some weird Bizzarro-Universe, be a
>possible reality in which there were things that could be discovered
>without their identities being absolute outside of the observer? (A not
>always = A?)

>Is such a universe conceivable?

>-Prof. Tim


Some have been implying that things are not objective in that they are
"dependent arisings" (was that on this list)? To imply that two dependent
objects can infer a third which is neither and/or both is not an objective
perspective. "Ego", for example has been described as a self-construct, or
illusion. If this is so, then two components of ego would combine to form a
subjective third manifestation (a existent self and a being, for example,
manifest as either one or the other--uncertainty--but not both). Likewise,
entropy and growth have been proposed as dependent arisings...stability
manifesting somewhere inbetween--not as an objective truth but as a
subjective manifestation of two dependent forces.

There is also that which occurrs on the border between chaos and order.
Which either states that both chaos and order are subjective states--or that
they are objective states and what occurs on the border is subjective.
Circularity is not objective--these "strange loops" create the illusion of
something which is present (existent) but which is a manifestation of
distinct and separate parts which only appear to form an objective whole.
There are gestaults and essences. Even statistics involves disproving the
objective reality of chance--that is the certainty that two things have no

What is needed is a definition of "objective". I propose: "That which
derrives from a prime cause, predicts a prime effect, or is reducable to
cause and effect." Then, I would say that "yes" everything is objective;
but, also subjectively so.


Rabble Sonnet Retort
Goto, n.:
A programming tool that exists to allow structured
programmers to complain about unstructured programmers.

Ray Simard