Re: virus: Re: MAIDS

Tadeusz Niwinski (
Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:25:54 -0700

A Level-3 Scientist, David R. wrote:
>Tad wrote:
>I wrote:
>>>Tad--a few months ago we advocated Objectivism and fought against what
>>>perceived to be "evil on the internet". But I don't see it that way
>>There is nothing wrong with changing one's mind, but I don't see your new
>>way of looking at the problem.
>What problem?

The "evil on the internet", the one you "don't see that way anymore".

>> Would you help me at least by answering my
>>question about defining Objectivists and Success.
>First of all, I think classifying individuals as "Objectivists" can be

I agree 100%. Why do you insist on doing it then?

>How about if you post some samples of Level-3 manipulation from earlier in
>the year and I can compare how they appeared to me back then and how they
>look to me now.
>That's probably the best way to "show" you, since it would
>probably look silly

I know you don't want to look silly, that's another symptom of social

>if I described an experience by saying, "First I got
>the *sense* that Objectivism was just one of these closed and arbitrary
>idea systems not much different from say, Islam, and then I 'flipped over'
>into a different mentality which I like a lot better."

Great idea. It may also be an interesting example of meme experiments we in
fact DO here. I found my post of February 21 where I described the Level-3
scam to Tony. As I recently wrote to Tim about the "unknown", I think
Level-3 can be an interesting concept (similar to Maslow's
selfactualization). It is the "you are not able to grasp it" part which
makes it a scam.

I can't wait for your new Level-3 scientific interpretation. Here is the post:

>Tony Hindle wrote:
> Please explain what is level 3 (and its context). Also
>the meaning of the term "flexing memespace on the fly".

Thanks for asking. This list was impregnated with the Level-3 meme on May
24, 1996 by Richard Brodie, author of the book "Virus of the Mind" with the
following historical post:

Tad wrote:
>In "Virus of the Mind" you describe an incident when Jim Jones said
>something like this: "trust me, just disinfect yourself and you will
>find the answer". Apparently this strategy works. I hope this is not
>your intension to kill my honest beliefs just because it is your advice.

I LIVE to kill people's beliefs! I want to get you out of Level 2!

>Suppose I am ready to inject the anti Absolute Truth meme into my
>veins, so I can faithfully join your "we need to use all the tricks in
>the book to spread the memetics metameme" crusade, although
>I prefer -- and I call it "conscious life" -- to understand rather than
>blindly follow the leader. This is why I asked you what YOU meant
>by the above slogan about "principled life". Would you mind
>a sincere answer? (yes, I know you wrote two books).

You have a Level-2 definition of "conscious", which is more like depth
of understanding. It has nothing to do with Level-3 consciousness, which is
being at cause in your life.

>>My basic point is not to get sucked into solving problems or fighting
>>battles that don't further your conscious purpose.
>Good point. I am sure it is my conscious purpose to understand "all
>the tricks in the book". Memetics is fascinating. I was just about to
>join the TA group, when I realized that this IS my life purpose.

It's good to have a life purpose.

>>>How does it relate to "It's good to live consciously" meme?
>>>Isn't living consciously striving for a better approximation
>>>of objective reality (both in physical and social life)?
>>I'll just say a flat out "no" to that question. Again my thoughts on
>>conscious living are discussed in detail in my two books.
>I did consult your both books. Would you mind a brief clarification of
>what you mean by "living consciously".

See above. =)


After having expected for the last nine months I realized the meme
must have been placed in a wrong canal and I came
with the following:

Level-3 FAQ:

Q: What is Level-3?
A: Read my book.

Q: I have. Can you explain what you mean?
A: Sorry, you are not able to understand it, because you are on level-2 (do
you feel the tingling? See...). Come to my workshop.

Q: Can you prove existence of Level-3?
A: No, you have to believe it first.

Q: Do *you* believe it?
A: Me?! Man, this is crap! Of course I don't believe it!

Q: Are you a parasite?
A: Of course not. I only earn $9.98 a month (nobody comes to my workshops
anymore). Do not accuse me of doing it for money.
I do it as my life's purpose.

Q: What is you life's purpose?
A: You are not able to understand it unless you are on Level-3.

Go to question one -- or get out of this list! This is my Church and those
level-1 chimps are MINE!


To which Richard fell on the floor rolling and laughing (ROFL).
Then he came with his most brilliant definition of Level-3
(I'm not making this up!):

"Level 3 is characterized by the ability to flex your meme-space on the
fly; to use multiple models depending upon your purpose and priorities.
It's possible to gain an intellectual understanding of what this means
from Level 2, but probably not possible to really feel the impact of the
difference in life experience. The Level-3 mind has a great capacity to
hold dissonant, contradictory beliefs. (Einstein was said to have this


Recently Richard has "invited" (did he say "invited" or "invented"?) one of
his followers whom he named "David R." This character is accusing "Richard"
of using this group for illegal memetical brainwashing experiments. In fact
there is something strange here: Dr.Jekyll becomes aggressive, Mr.Hyde is
hiding, people start confessing strange things like men missing their
periods, or being pregnant, or being Richard Dawkins, or being more than
Richard Dawkins, or reading Richard Dawkins' Mind verbatim. Masturbation
before going to bed became a favourite pastime, as well as a free
comprehensive Manipulation 101 Course is being offered (and *nobody* knows
that the whole experiment is run remotely from planet TeTa).

I hope it explains where you have gotten into, Tony. This list is a place
where REAL memes fight. And fight hard (some are scared, eh?). Do you
think the good ones have a chance to win? Remember, whatever your fingers
do with your keyboard, it's nothing more than your memes using you to fight
for their meme-space (on the fly).


Regards, Tadeusz (Tad) Niwinski from planet TeTa (604) 985-4159