Re: virus: Re: Social Metaphysics

David McFadzean (
Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:37:14 -0600

At 01:22 PM 9/17/97 -0700, Tadeusz Niwinski wrote:

>Thank you David. Although also negative thinking has bad effects and
>"faith" can cover both terms (I know you hate the word, why?).

Because to have faith[1] is to be knowingly inconsistent and I hate
inconsistency as much as the Nateman. The reason I hate inconsistency[2]
is because it is impossible to reason with someone who doesn't care
about consistency. Without the possibility of reasonable argument,
there are only two remaining ways to convince someone of something[3]
and those are fraud[4] and force. Hopefully it is clear why the latter
two methods are undesirable.

[1] For this argument a belief can be said to be based on faith to the
extent that it is inconsistent with the acknowledged facts. I think this
definition is in line with most people's.

[2] I'm explicitly not talking about apparent inconsistencies like "the
sky is blue and the sky is not blue" which can be true under a myriad
of conditions, e.g. the sky is cloudy, or the observations took place
at different times or on opposite sides of the world, or on different
planets or by different species, etc., etc. I'm talking about real
inconsistencies like the belief the Holocaust never happened is
inconsistent with the historical evidence. [5]

[3] Often it is not merely an academic exercise to convince someone of
something. Consider "you should take responsibility for your actions",
or "your actions are hurting these people".

[4] By "fraud" I'm including fallacious arguments.

[5] Hey, a footnote within a footnote! Prof. Tim was (repeatedly :-) asking
what would be different if real inconsistencies are possible. For one
thing it would be impossible to convict someone of a crime because the
way it works is the defendant is assumed to be innocent, then an effort
is made to show that the assumption is inconsistent with the acknowledged
facts. If inconsistencies are possible, then the court would never have
a good reason to convict someone and a justice system would be impossible.

David McFadzean       
Memetic Engineer      
Church of Virus