Re: virus: MAIDS

Tim Rhodes (
Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:57:17 -0700 (PDT)

On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, Tadeusz Niwinski wrote:

> Tim (Professorski) wrote:
> >Tadeusz (Rand-y) Niwinski wrote:
> >
> >> Can we control memes we process and can we prove it (one way or the
> >> other)? I think it's time to formulate our axioms. Let me start with
> >> some three axioms (three because I want to become the Ayn Rand of
> >> Memetics):
> >>
> >> (1) Memes exist.
> >> (2) Memes control what we do.
> >> (3) We are capable of selecting memes we let control what we do.
> >
> >I think these axioms may be a good starting point. But I think we need to
> >expand our understanding of "we are capable of selecting memes" in order
> >to understand its relationship with "memes control what we do".
> Sure go ahead. What do you think?

Glad you asked, Tad.

I think that the memes that "control what we do" are a subset of the memes
we have stored internally (been exposed to and retained) and that that is,
in turn, a subset of the memes we have been exposed to in our environment.

Let's introduce some sets then: (Buckle up your seatbelts for some set
theory boys and girls)

E{m} is the set that contains all memes the individual (here shown
as "m") is exposed to.

I{m} is the set that contains all memes "m" retains and stores
internally. (I use "internally" instead of "in memory" to leave the door
open to other forms on storage such as notes or books)

A{m} is the set that contains all memes in "m" that "control what
we do" or are active in m's personal mindset.

I assert that,

E{m} > I{m} > A{m}

And that there in criteria (or set of criterion) whereby memes are
selected from E{m} to become a part of I{m}. And likewise a similar, but
my no means equivalent, set of criteria that selects from the set I{m} to
generate A{m}. I think these criterion are at the heart of the matter.

I have arbitrary named these criteria, without attributing
characteristics to them yet, in order to look at their relationships. I
have named them:

R(x) is the criteria whereby I{m} is selected from E{m} for any
meme "x" within E{m}.

V(x) is the criteria whereby A{m} is selected from I{m} for any
meme "x" within I{m}.

Therefore a meme, say <God>, may move from E{m} to I{m} and further be
selected into A{m} for one individual, but not for another if their R(x)
and V(x) criteria are different.

I think the interesting memes are the ones that once they reach A{m}
reconfigure R(x) and V(x) to new values. These are the ones that can be
said to control the /way/ we think.

And I believe some peoples R(x) and V(x) are such that primary among the
criteria (still undefined at this point) are the judgment of the perceived
effects of a meme upon that criteria. Such that said individual would
give high R(x) and V(x) values to memes that show the potential to
reconfigure the formulas for R(x) and V(x) in a useful way.

Thank you for asking, Tad. This is the subject of a _Mathematics of
Memetics_ rant I've been writing off list and I'm glad to be given the
opportunity to share. Although I, by no means, would expect or demand an
equal level of interest or analysis from you, Tad. This is my personal
obsession of late and we are two different people with different
obsessions. I don't expect you to have to share the level of interest
(R(x)) in this subject that I do, but I do welcome your thoughts on the

Thanks again.

-Prof. Tim