>> You (David McF.) seem to think patterns exist "out there"--that they are
>> intrinsic to matter, while Richard seems to think they are conjured up
>> purely in the mind--a subjective phenomenon. I think patterns are a
>> function of the mind but that they get limited and influenced by a
>>reality "out there". --David R.
>Do you mean that patterns do not exist "out there"? Any order we see is
>project outwards?
>Or do you mean some patterns which we see may exist, while others we
>create; or even that patterns may exist, but they may not be the ones we
>are able to observe?
>(I'm interested in everyone's answer { well almost everyone's :o) } )
If we divide the world up into elements, we can use different systems. We
can use the elements of the periodic table, ie hydrogen, helium, lithium,
etc. or we can use the 4 elements (ie. earth, air, fire, water,) or other
systems, of which an infinite number can get created. So,we can break up
the world into an infinite number of patterns, meaning we can view the
world in an infinite number of ways. We create these patterns, yet the
patterns depend on the nature of reality out there. Different people can
look at a cloud and see different images, but the cloud is still the
same--but even that view of seeing the cloud as distinct, is still a
pattern we create.
But that pattern depends again, on an external reality having a certain
nature.But, how we see that reality depends on us, which depends on
reality, etc. Does this make sense?
--David R.