Re: virus:Logic

chardin (
Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:34:38 CST+6CDT

> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 19:02:55 -0500
> To:
> From: Brett Lane Robertson <>
> Subject: Re: virus:Logic
> Reply-to:

> Brett, it is difficult to sit down with anyone and explain a
> religious belief or a scientific belief for that matter in a short
> time. There are LOTS of reasons that go into making up the beliefs
> and you fault people because they can't present it to you like a
> book report. CHARDIN
> Cathy,
> When someone says they have a belief and leave it at that, I do not
> fault them. But when someone begins to explain the reasons for that
> belief, I can compare the reasons with the belief and decide if they
> are valid. If I say that I believe the world is problem:
> If I say I believe the world is flat because I had cottage cheese
> for breakfast--problem! I also believe in god (but not a devil or
> hell)...I believe in Jesus as *a* messiah...and a durn good one, we
> are still following his example 2000 years later. I just don't like
> some peoples' reasoning--the bible says, there was a prophecy, the
> church says, my preacher says, I have faith: The statement "There
> is a god: The Bible says" is like "The world is flat: I had
> cottage cheese"--the reasoning is not good.

I agree with you completely. A person has to have reasons for what
they believe. Sometimes we do "jump" from what we consider valid
arguments to a conclusion which might not be apparent on the surface.
For example, Sodom, in his posting to me said that he had read the
Bible and thought it beautiful and could be true, but" if Genesis
were true, then his computer wouldn't work." Well, I could make all
sorts of smart alecky replies to that one-- e.g., I believe Genesis
is true and my computer works--maybe you need a new computer
consultant, etc. But I know that Sodom has other things in mind, and
I know that he isn't a fool so, even though I don't know what the
reasons are I am willing to suspend the criticism and ask a question.
(I am curious by the way, Sodom, of the rest of the argument).

It may be the case that my argument is entirely invalid; however,
Sodom was asking for a miracle. I asked for what type of miracle. I
suggested a possibility of one. What if there were some sort of
proof for a being who existed outside of time, i.e. that he could
tell us, in more than just generalizations (because, y ou see, I do
not believe in fortune tellers, either), might that be a reason for
believing in miracles? It does not follow from this, of course, that
he is a God you should worship or otherwise follow. In fact, you
might look at the evidence and say, OK, I believe your argument and I
believe there is the possibility of such a person, I still don't like
him. In fact, I think he is a space traveler who has seen the
future...etc. etc.
> In Sodom's account of his level I took the words that he used and
> compared them to the conclusions he drew. The words DID match the
> conclusion but they didn't *disprove* my summation that a level 3
> can exist without a coherent sense of self...nor did they explain
> why one would not have an original belief, nor why one would accept
> outside beliefs in lieu of their own understanding. Though I'm not
> sure if my questioning his belief is what prompted your post?!? I
> did conclude from his words that he preferred science to religion
> and he has not said that I was incorrect.
Well, that is preaching to the choir isn't it? That Sodom prefers
science to religion. Sodom tauntingly
made the statement that miracles were relegated to the past, what is
wrong with your god? he asked. etc. etc. I'm sorry if I butted in on
a private argument. I thought one could make comments to the post,
even if they were not the initial recipient if one had something to

I cannot make comments about how a level 2 or level 3 should behave,
as I am not familiar with this. I have tried to keep my comments
out of those discussions as it is obviously out of my sphere.
Forgive me if I have sidetracked the discussion away from it's main
emphasis: viruses, levels of achievement,e tc. Perhaps I ought to
go to a list that is more dedicated to science/religion/philosophy
/politics. But then, that would also exclude about 75% of the other
participants, it seems to me. CHardin

> Returning,
> rBERTS%n
> Rabble Sonnet Retort
> Klein bottle for rent -- inquire within.