Re: The story-telling ape (was virus: Logic)

Sodom (
Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:39:22 -0400

Marie Foster wrote:

> David McFadzean wrote:
> >
> > At 03:27 PM 10/14/97 -0700, Marie Foster wrote:
> >
> > >How do you fit self destructive behaviours into this model?
> >
> > The interest of the meme doesn't necessarily coincide with the
> > interest of the host. This would help to explain phenomena like
> > the wave of suicides that follows the suicide of a public figure
> > such as Kurt Cobain. Is this what you meant?
> >
> > --
> > David McFadzean
> > Memetic Engineer
> > Church of Virus
> That was not the specific I had in mind but I like it better. In fact
> I
> read this message as I was getting ready to leave my office yesterday
> and I was stuck with the idea in my mind all evening.
> Is there possibly some level where ideas have mass and energy?
> Perhaps
> even organization? I just throw out those as points to ponder.
> I find this kind of event to be pretty incomprehensible. I asked my
> son
> what he thought about what might motivate such an individual. He
> thought it was emotions rather than thought. But while I do think
> that
> they must have been in an emotional storm there was a decision made to
> commit suicide. I do not believe that decisions are made absent from
> thoughts (or am I an exception to some rule?).
> My only insight is that these individuals must have so submerged their
> own selves that on some level they become the beloved. To shatter
> that
> identification is to cause such a feeling of loss and anguish that the
> idea of life becomes intolerable. This is just speculation however.
> It would be an interesting undertaking to start the analysis of a
> suicide meme complex. Direct interaction with individuals so consumed
> would be problemetic however.
> Marie

As someone with a "depressed" mate, I have some knowledge of this
sort of thing. From what I have read and heard, there is usually a brain
chemical problem associated with suicide. I had a dialog with my wife,
went something like this:

S: What's wrong honey, you look sad

W: I am depressed, and just want to lie here

S: What are you depressed about? It's a beautiful day, we have most of
what we want, life is good.

W: I'm not depressed about anything in particular

S: What do you mean? There has to be some reason for this feeling. It
doesn't just exist on it's own.

W: - no response -

S: Well, what do you think?

W: I'm just depressed

So I asked a professional and was told that the reason for depression is
chemical only, there does not need to be an underlying cause.. i can
imagine that to people with an extreme case of depression could easily
prefer death, especially if they were religious and had reason to hope
for a continued "happy" existence.

MODOS spelled backwards