Re: virus: Saints

Sodom (
Wed, 03 Dec 1997 23:12:50 -0500

Marie Foster wrote:
> Sodom wrote:
> >
> > Marie Foster wrote:
> > > All I ask is that you grant that my decision to be a theist is based
> > on
> > > my reasoning, and my heart and let it go at that. I grant you the
> > > same. To me that is common ground.
> >
> > This is where the difference lies, I do NOT use my heart to make this
> > decision. Emotion has nothing to do with my decisions about the nature
> > of reality, in yours it does. There is nothing wrong with that, but I
> > cannot support "cannonizing" someone who lets their emotion decide
> > reality for them. That is the ONLY point I am making.
> >
> > Sodom
> BS... Your passion for this issue is eloquent. Your words are empty.
> And I do not care what anyone else has said or written on this issue.
> You have been persuaded to your belief system. You can refer me to any
> number of web pages. But what I want to know is what you think and
> feel. Look Bill, I like you. You have lots of good ideas. But we will
> get nowhere as a species until we get everyone to be willing to shatter
> our own illusions each day. That is all we can do.
> Marie

It seems we have reached a point that either I am quite stupid, or we
are both incapable of any reason at all when it comes to the others
viewpoint. What I argue for is not what I like, i would much prefer that
there was a "god" and that my "soul" was immortal, and all the other
stuff that goes along with it, but as I still hold, no proof, no belief.
I have been persuaded that, so far, logic and reason have been the best
tool for describing the Universe around and within us. These tools show
us continuing results that we see all around us. Where these tools don't
exist there is famine, disease and a life expectancy that is appalling.
No amount of ANY religious beliefs so far could even begin to describe
the moons orbit around the earth, or even that our bodies are made up of

Scienctists are new to this world, and have only existed for a couple
hundred years. In that time, the benefits are irrefutable. Sure, there
are bad things from science, but the worst was before science. Gengis
Khan was estimated to kill 40 million people. Just recently in Rowanda,
half a million people were hacked to death with machettes.

Don't for a second, attempt to determine how I feel, my passion is not
for science or reason, but honesty. That is all the passion there is.
All else stems from that. i cannot say in all honesty that something
exists without evidence, I am not willing to sacrafice my "soul" to that
concept, for it has no end. If you can say, from your heart that you
feel otherwise, then that is good for you. But not for me, I have
hallucinated god, and I have left my body. I know the experiences can be
powerful, but the brain is a very powerful tool and can create any
internal illusion for itself. Had I been a Christian, I would have been
on my knees to the "god" my mind created for me. After serious
challenge, it crumpled and lost it's "reality". Someone without the guts
to make the challenge, would have been made a believer, I shudder to
think how many have had similar "visions" and failed to realize they
were looking at themselves.

Obviously you and I usually get along and like each others ideas, when
it came to patterns existing inside or outside of ourselves, you changed
my opinion on the subject. Since being here, I have had to revise many
of my ideas of the Universe, and I like doing so, but the rock that
breaks the illusion must be solid - imaginary rocks don't do the job.
About the only "god" I can accept from the evidence, is a mother nature,
but I do not think mother nature is sentient or deliberately created us.
There is certainly no evidence that Mother nature spoke to Moses, Jesus,
Budda, Armun, Marduke or any of the like. You could make the argument
that Mother Nature is omniscient, since all knowledge is within it's
realm. You could make the argument that Mother Nature is Omnipotent,
since it defines all the laws of reality, you can say we are all
connected through mother nature since all of the particles in us
interact with their neighbors and eventually reach almost everything
everywhere. My sticking point is only that I see no reason to conclude

Well, sorry I ran on so long, think I'll put some of this in my book.

Man of some strangely colored light