Is the term "born again" used in this post to describe a fanatic? Is
there a basis for this distinction (that is, are christians who are
*born again* any more fanatical than christians who are not born again).
Is there an educated assessment here of the term "born again" such that
an explanation of the "born again" process produces fanaticism (that is,
is there an understanding of WHAT it means to be "born again" and HOW
this process produces fanaticism).?
I can (first hand) attest that the "death" process of the old person is
painful, and that becoming a "new creature" is confusng. Within the
death process, there is a turning of the focus of the self back upon the
self such that all of one's experiences are viewed as if from the
perspective of another: This produces guilt (in the sense that
*objective* personhood might function to the self as objects function;
that is, they maintain certain boundaries and the idea of separateness
so that no two objects can occupy the exact same space--in the
psychological sense of no two people being exactly the same, there is a
competition over every psychological resource and a feeling of
superiority/inferiority and opposition ensues, from this opposition
there is a hopelessness of resolving differences and a death of the self
which results from this hopelessness...fear of death produces much
psychological pain).
This "self" is repressed and this pain forms a barrier to it's being
recalled... and THIS barrier results in defensiveness to others when
these others stir up old memories and recall this painful experience
(and the pain is very intense... the fight to avoid the death experience
is as strong as a fight for survival-- which it IS, from the perspective
of "self). I might propose that this process DOES produce a type of
fanaticism... but that this fanaticism (after the understanding that the
self is a part of a larger whole) also extends to "other" as a part of
the self-- and therefore, I question if this self (with the
understanding of other) would be fanatic in the normally implied sense
of the word "fanatical" as to do so causes a death experience of "other"
which ALSO recalls the death experience of self.
My final assumption, then, is that the process of rebirth does produce
religious fanaticism but not in the usual sense of the word.
Brett Lane Robertson
Indiana, USA
www.window.to/mindrec
news:alt.pub.coffeehouse.amethyst
--WebTV-Mail-1845465725-5267
Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
X-Authentication-Warning: maxwell.kumo.com: majordom set sender to
owner-virus@lucifer.com using -f
Message-ID: <351BD070.D5C43556@ieway.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:14:41 -0800
From: Marie Foster <mfos@ieway.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: Re: virus: Language
References: <4b9f1e6c.3519f063@aol.com> <3.0.3.32.19980326193655.01278cc0@cmsu2.cmsu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-virus@lucifer.com
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com
It is quite a good conversation. If what you are asking is this really
GOD... well I have no idea. The thought came to me after being involved in
some earlier discussions on this list with a born again who chose to leave us
because she did not feel that anyone really wanted to listen to her side of
things.
We square up our vision of life and how we relate to it based on lots of
ideas from others on what is ok and what is not ok. And talking to oneself
is one of those not so ok things to do. Well, I feel that the hardest thing
to do is to really be aware of our own lack of true skepticism about our own
blindness.
It is easy to view religion for example as all negative. Well, life is not
that simple. All things in life are choices. Some people here seem to
cherish athiesm with the same fervor of religious fanatics.
Someone said for example that athiesm has not produced bad things for
people. Sigh... this is a time of post communism. How quickly one forgets
that oppression in the name of any "ideal" still hurts as much.
So back to that conversation. I like a course in miracles. The reason I
like it is that it squares up with my idea of what Jesus Christ was all
about... And yes, I was raised as a Christian just not the born again type.
So, I have always kind of liked the picture of this man who just seemed to
understand what people are really all about.
And in the quiet times when all about is still, a voice calls to me. It is
my own personal experience. Sharing it here is difficult. Perhaps when you
are all my age, you will have your own voice. I have had life without it. I
do not want to go back.
Aaron Cook wrote:
> At 06:35 AM 3/26/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >Hmmm . I am not afraid to say that I talk to God all the time and
> *something is
> >talking back to me*
> >
> >:)
> >
> You talk to "GOD" but you don't know who is talking back?! Doesn't sound
> like a conversation.
-- MarieWho in real life exists as
The Noble Lady Casey, Serpent's Hold, Sonoma Shard, Britannia
--WebTV-Mail-1845465725-5267--