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>Subject: virus-digest V2 #436
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>virus-digest Friday, April 24 1998 Volume 02 : Number
436
>
>
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:34:45 -0400
>From: "Gifford, Nate F" <giffon@SDCPOS3B.DAYTONOH.ncr.com>
>Subject: RE: virus: urban myths?
>
>Kristee wrote:
>
> >----------
> It's like life in that I know it really is all useless and
>meaningless but we >have to live as if it isn't, and pretend that we
can
>actually
> >accomplice something as humans, considering that sitting around and
>>waiting to die would be terribly boring. ; )
>
> What a great spoonerism!!!! What exactly do we accomplice to
>accomplish? That is the crux of the group.
>
> >We both consider ourselves to be 'apolitical'. (*please don't tell
>me it is >impossible to by apolitical; ppl are always telling me I
Cannot be
>what I >am.*)
>
>a·po·lit·i·cal adj. 1. Having no interest in or association with
politics.
>2. Having no political importance.
>
> It is possible to be apolitical ... as long as you have a buddha
>like acceptance of the way things world. Note however that to say you
are
>apolitical is a political act. If you truly are apolitical then let me
>offer a different strategy: When the subject of politics comes up
simply
>change the subject. If other participants in the conversation won't
let go
>of the political bone modulo the group with the question: "Does anyone
else
>find this as boring as I do?" And discuss art, literature, food, or
>whatever with whoever the remainder is.
> ....
> Kristee quotes a hacker friend ...
> >Any group <that wishes to survive -nfg> will become assimilating
><by definition of group - nfg>
> >elitist,
> <I disagree ... unless elitist is to make the distinction "on the
>bus or off the bus - those who are in the group as opposed to those who
>aren't>
> >corrupt
> <I REALLY disagree .... but would ask your friend to define his term
>before I argued the point>
> >and fill itself with its own hype.
> <Again by definition ... isn't hype simply the defining of purpose?
>Without hyperbole I would have to concede the corrupt ... but its only
a
>danger when you confuse rhetoric with reality .... the people who do
this
>are generally defined as "fringe">
> ...
> You have to destroy everything you're not entirely comfortable with.
>
> Great ... that makes sense .... once I destroy everything I'm not
>comfortable with I end up with a cordless phone, a Laz-Z-Boy, and
satellite
>TV.
> ...
> Thoughts change. As soon as a philosophy is established by an
>individual in a way that someone else accepts it, it is destroyed.
> Including your friend's thoughts. One day he'll realize how
>dependent he is on other people ... and he'll acknowledge the lip
service
>he's been giving caeser all along.
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:58:06 -0400
>From: Sodom <sodom@ma.ultranet.com>
>Subject: Re: virus: Angry young Men
>
>Thanks Keith, I'll bet that that answer is a pretty good one and as i
think
>about it, it seems that when it comes down to it, more of an
explanation may
>not be necessart, though I am curious what the rest of the group
thinks.
>Sodom
>
>
>Keith Elis wrote:
>
>> Young males, in competition for mates with other males of the tribe,
>> rebel first against the tribal fathers, because their territorial
rules
>> ensure that the fathers have first pick of the females. It is
weakness
>> to placidly do what you are told, and rebellion is instead a show
>> strength and power. Strength and power have evolved to be signifiers
of
>> healthy and robust genes in males, so females are genetically
pressured
>> to find them attractive. Angry Young Man Syndrome is likely to be
>> holdover from this early hunter-gatherer proclivity -- the need to
rebel
>> in order to appear strong in the face of established mating
>> hierarchies.
>>
>> Keith
>>
>> --
>>
______________________________________________________________________
>> I'VE GOT GOD INSIDE MY HEAD
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 12:09:14 -0400
>From: Sodom <sodom@ma.ultranet.com>
>Subject: Re: virus: urban myths?
>
>Kristee wrote:
>
>> However, I think we did jump the gun in assuming that all hackers are
selfish anarchists. Is this a correct impression I got?
>
>I would not sall are, but thus far, the ones I have encountered and
spent a great deal of time with, gravitite to that philosophical corner.
I think it passes in most cases.
>
>
>> I think many do it just to test their skill, as an athlete would.
>
>Yes, Im sure this is part of it too, curiosity is also a powerful
motivator.
>
>> >I believe that any sort of group, organisation, following is
>> >inherently wrong. Any group will become assimilating, elitist,
>> >corrupt and fill itself with its own hype. I wouldn't have any of
>> >that. It's building something negative. What good can come out of
>> >taking away someone's individuality for the sake of block numbers?
>> >Even anarchists have to wear the circle-A. They are hypocrites. None
>> >of them really apreciates anarchy, they are only following it
because
>> >it's such a big fashion. You can't destroy something wantonly. You
>> >have to destroy everything you're not entirely comfortable with.
>> >There has to be a purpose to it, offering some sort of an
alternative. >There isn't such a thing as a group philosophy. That's all
wrong. That's >too limiting and sterile. A philosophy can't be described
completely. >That's stopping it, and you can't put a stop on thoughts.
Thoughts >change. As soon as a philosophy is established by an
individual in a >way that someone else accepts it, it is destroyed.
>>
>
>Im not a 100% sure what your friend is saying, but I dont think I agree
whole heartedly, I do think it is not good to follow blindly, but I do
think it is good to follow a good idea. Refusing to get vaccinated
against a deadly disease because you dont want to "follow" is downright
fool hearty. You can extend this several steps in all directions. My
favorite Sci-fi example of a functioning anarchy is from Harry
Harrison's Stainless steel rat series. There was a group on a planet
that practiced a form of government called IM (Individual
>Mutualism). Basically a computer assigned 8 hrs of work a week to
everyone based on skills - all labor was equally valued, and there were
no laws. If you were a jerk, news would pass from person to persona and
no one would work with you, give you food etc... The only problem I see
with this type of system is that people are inherintly selfish (in my
opinion) and much more interested in self satisfaction, societies
benefit.
>
>Sodom
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 12:14:16 -0400
>From: Sodom <sodom@ma.ultranet.com>
>Subject: Re: virus: Angry young Men
>
>Good one Bob, i like this one too, though I suspect it might be the
next stage
>after genetic mate finding. I have this exact discussion with my wife
often,
>about how important that you sense of self worth be dictated by inward
>reflection, not outward reflection. I think I agree quite a bit with
this. I
>now am a long hair in a professional environment. It was tough to get
>accepted, fortunately I am somewhat of an eloquent speaker, so I got
in, but
>many arent so lucky.
>
>
>Sodom
>Bill Roh
>
>Bob Seals wrote:
>
>> But if you are taught well by your parents to gather your sense of
self
>> internally instead of by external factors and object orientation
>> You will have wisom someday,in other words your sense of self doesn't
>> come from the objects around you. If the self comes from Object
>> orientation then you are a candidate for the Mental Ward. Psychosis
and
>> its cousins Depression/Anxiety do not care one bit who it destroys.
>> Society is pretty friggin sick. Look at its religions and
>> Criminal justice system and tell me it isn't so. Youth is wasted on
the
>> young. The need to belong is an overbearing one.
>>
>> At least that's what I think Sodom, and I just might be wrong,
>> maybe.
>>
>> Bob S
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:50:26 -0500
>From: "C.A. Cook" <coreycook12@email.msn.com>
>Subject: virus: Silence
>
>I've been hosting a meme for a few months now. I generally think of it
as
>the <Silence> meme. I suppose the first strands of it starting
appearing
>back during one of the Buddhist arguements. Someone mentioned a line
out of
>the Scripture about
>wisdom, and the impossibility of the transmission thereof.
>
>Since then, I have noticed several .sig tags that seemed to say this,
in one
>way or another. Recently, Kristee posted a rant from a hacker friend.
The
>last
>few lines:
>>As soon as a philosophy is established by an individual in a
>>way that someone else accepts it, it is destroyed.
> :kind of sums up <silence>.
>
>Does anyone else host this meme?
>
>CA Cook, LF
>coreycook12@email.msn.com
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:28:22 +0100
>From: Robin Faichney <robin@faichney.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: virus: Silence
>
>In message <001501bd6ee8$af82e0e0$10d12499@pavilion>, C.A. Cook
><coreycook12@email.msn.com> writes
>>I've been hosting a meme for a few months now. I generally think of
it as
>>the <Silence> meme.
>[...]
>
>"Those who know, do not speak,
>and those who speak, do not know."
>
>Don't know where that originated, but it has a certain something!
>
>Here's another, vaguely similar, which I think comes from the
>Xtian Bible (which is not all bad, far from it in fact):
>
>"Be still, and know."
>- --
>Robin
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 22:39:02 -0400
>From: Eric Boyd <6ceb3@qlink.queensu.ca>
>Subject: Re: virus: Silence
>
>Hi,
>
>Yea, it's my understanding that this meme is pretty old. "The Tao that
can
>be expressed is not the eternal Tao..." All Taoists probably host it,
as
>well as most of the Zen Buddhists. I'm fairly sure that just about any
>mystical tradition will have expressed it at one time or another as
well.
>
>As to whether it's actually a meme... probably. A most unusual one,
for
>sure. Perhaps a good candidate for a memetic study?
>
>ERiC
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:23:07 EDT
>From: FallAwake <FallAwake@aol.com>
>Subject: Re: virus: Greetings All
>
>In a message dated 98-04-21 19:59:17 EDT, you write:
>
><< The majority of people
> think that we are actually killing this planet, but we don't have
nearly
> that kind of power. We can kill ourselves and most everyting else,
but
> we don't have nearly the power to actually destroy the entire planet.
I
> am an atheist, a true man of science and logic. >>
>"we can only create things we can destroy"
>we actually can destroy this world. we have enough nuclear bombs lying
around
>to do that. to say that we can destroy the world with polution is a
little
>off hand, we can however make the world unlivable by life as we know
it, but
>other species would adapt.
>also dont say youre an atheist just to call yourself a man of science
and
>logic. you are an atheist because you dont believe in god. perhaps
you are
>both an atheist and a man of true man of science and logic. but the
two
>should be separated.
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:53:57 -0700
>From: Deron Stewart <deron@direct.ca>
>Subject: RE: virus: Silence
>
>From: C.A. Cook [SMTP:coreycook12@email.msn.com]
>Sent: Thursday, April 23, 1998 11:50 AM
>
>>Does anyone else host this meme?
>
>>CA Cook, LF
>>coreycook12@email.msn.com
>
>
>Here is the test of wisdom,
>Wisdom is not finally tested in schools,
>Wisdom cannot be passed from one having it
>to another not having it,
>
>Wisdom is of the soul, is not susceptible of proof,
>is its own proof, <....>
>
>Now I re-examine philosophies and religions,
>They may prove well in lecture rooms, yet may not
>prove at all under the spacious clouds
>and along the landscape and flowing currents.
>
>- ---Walt Whitman, "Song of the Open Road"
>
>
>I have hosted (and transmitted) this meme for the last few years...
>
>As an aside, this is the main reason why, in some cases, I hold novels
in
>higher esteem than non-fiction, despite a widespread perception that
>non-fiction is more "real" and "important". Great novels dance along
the
>edges of the true complexity of life and are infused with wisdom, while
>much non-fiction tries to put reality into a small box...
>
>Deron
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:33:46 PDT
>From: "Richard Shellehamer" <salamando666@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: virus: Greetings All
>
>FallAwake:
>
>also dont say youre an atheist just to call yourself a man of science
>and logic. you are an atheist because you dont believe in god.
perhaps
>you are both an atheist and a man of true man of science and logic.
but
>the two should be separated.
>
>
>I am aware of that, it was just a miscommunication. I am both and
>aethist AND a man of science/logic, sorry if I confused ya ;)
>
> ____ ___ __----__ _/\
> _/^ __ ^\_ /~^_/ | )/^ ^-^ _/
> _/^ _/^ ^\_ ^\ | ./ /~ /( _/\.
> _/^_/^--_ ^\_^\-__-~ _/( \ _/ ./
> ./^_/| \_ ~\ \_^\_ /^ _( ~-_ _/ \./\
> _/^_/ \_ ~\ \ ^\__^\../^_/^ )\ ~~~~ _\/
><__/ ~\__\| ^\.__./^ ~---____--~ ~\
> Rich
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:44:01 EDT
>From: FallAwake <FallAwake@aol.com>
>Subject: Re: virus: urban myths?
>
>In a message dated 98-04-23 08:43:24 EDT, you write:
>
><< Thoughts change. As soon as a philosophy is established by an
> individual in a way that someone else accepts it, it is destroyed. >>
>
>10 people with 11 opinions...
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:59:51 EDT
>From: FallAwake <FallAwake@aol.com>
>Subject: Re: virus: Silence
>
>In a message dated 98-04-23 16:08:24 EDT, you write:
>
><< "Those who know, do not speak,
> and those who speak, do not know." >>
>
>i host this silence meme. it became a theme in a book i wrote for
english
>class last month too. im posting the book on the web as soon as i
convert it
>to HTML.
>a short summary, only spotting out silence meme,
>a child goes into a dream world expiriences all sorts of things (alice
in the
>wonderland...) anyway, in the dream world the creatures can read minds
by
>looking into peoples eyes. the child comes upon a charecter who wears
>sunglasses for the sole purpose of keeping his knowledge to himself
(this
>charecter becomes the child's mentor). at the end of the book the
child gives
>a long explanation of life to the mentor and the mentor gives him the
>sunglasses....
>ok thats my bad summary, ill post it on the web soon.
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of virus-digest V2 #436
>***************************
>
>
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