Re: virus: ape talk

sodom (Sodom@ma.ultranet.com)
Wed, 08 Jul 1998 14:28:57 -0400


Interesting you should bring this subject up - I would like to mention the
book "Demonic Males - Apes and the Origins of Human Violence" by Richard
Wrangham and Dale Peterson. It's quite an excellent and fun read, and also
goes into quite a lot of depth regarding our cousins, the other great apes. In
the discussion about Bonobos, it is mentioned that their vocabulary, at least
in understnding what humans say, is thus far proven unlimited. They seem to
understand human speech perfectly well. I wonder if their language processing,
in a physical sense, is close to ours or quite different (within the limits of
our genetic differences of course). I also wonder if teaching systems work in
a similar fashion despite diferences, or becasue of similarities in the
language processing makeup.

Also, finally getting through with Dennet's _Darwin's Dangerous Idea_. Holy
shit, it is pretty convincing. I have had to revise at least a dozen notions I
had about everything from: Mathematics as a human descriptive system, to
pattern definition, hell, lots of stuff. If anyone here has not read it, THE
READ IT ASAP

Sodom

Eva-Lise Carlstrom wrote:

> Some time ago, somebody posted here that some researchers had tried
> applying the same intensive techniques that have been used to teach apes
> sign language to teaching humans with Down syndrome, and managed to
> offset their apparent handicap. The poster of that claim did not remember
> a source for it. Serendipitously, I have just discovered the probable
> source in an editorial in the current (Jul/Aug 98) _Analog_ magazine. In
> his article "King of the Hill (No Matter What)", Stanley Schmidt discusses
> attitudes toward the possibility of non-human intelligence (animal or
> computer). In a section on the language ability of apes, he says that Sue
> Savage-Rumbaugh, a researcher who worked with bonobos (pygmy chimps),
> later tried applying the same techniques to retarded humans and got the
> same impressive results. According to Schmidt, this is detailed in
> chapter seven of Savage-Rumbaugh and Roger Lewin's book _Kanji: The Ape at
> the Brink of the Human Mind_, which he recommends all of and particularly
> the first chapter.
>
> --Eva,
> making delayed footnotes to other people's posts
>
> PS: It was not I who called avocados a vegetable. However, since
> "vegetable" is a general term for plant substances, *and* also a more
> specific food term for plant foods generally treated in a savory rather
> than sweet fashion, I'd call it an acceptable use, despite their botanical
> fruithood.