> Hi,
>
> sodom <Sodom@ma.ultranet.com> wrote:
> > Plus, no discovery has yet to be made that would
> > not be made by someone else along the way. We like
> > to think that flashes of insight are all our own,
> > and I see no eviudence to see that as the case.
>
> I think I'll pass on a distinction meme that I acquired from Dennett[1] --
> namely, there are two types of "discoveries", as it were. For example,
> Newton's laws fit into the type of thing you are thinking of above.
> Dennett calls them *forced* moves in Design space -- that is, given enough
> time, we would have found them without Newton. To give a biological
> example, *eyes* seem to be forced moves in animal design space -- whenever
> a creature needs to move, it develops "eyes" of one type or another.[2]
>
Thats where I got mine from too, justed userd as few words as possible - iun
essense, I agree with this.
> But Dennett mentions another type of move in design space -- a good example
> is The Eiffel Tower. It is here, now, certainly, and it was designed. But
> if it's creator had never lived, would we have anything like it? Perhaps.
> Probably not, though. Another common example is Shakespeare plays. If he
> had never lived, we certainly wouldn't have them -- although we probably
> would have plays which deal with the same issues. I don't remember
> Dennett's term for them, but I shall call them "creative" moves in design
> space.
>
Exactly, and I agreed with it, I wonder what great art non-existent people will
never create!
> As to *creative* "flashes" of insight, no, I don't think those occur
> either. It's merely that every individual has a unique set of experiences
> and meme's which combine in ways that are *chaotic* (i.e. deterministic,
> but too complicated to predict in the long term)
>
> ERiC
>
> [1] _Darwin's Dangerous Idea_, Daniel Dennett
>
> [2] Interestingly, many biologists speculate that bats experience their
> "radar" in the same way we experience vision. Irregardless, their radar
> *is* an alternative to eyes -- bats are the exception that proves the rule.
Funny you should mention this - In the latest issue of Discover there is an
article about a underwater listening device that is made up of many "ears" and
draws a picture based on ambient noise (Which the sea is full of). The idea is
that you dont need a ping at all, there is enough sound to "light" up the water
with sound. Since the premise between bouncing sound waves and bouncing light
waes are so similar, this device draws a picture of the landscape, not an echo.
Pretty damn cool if you ask me!
Sodom