> Sodom, shottin' from the hip, sez:
>
> >I think this strw man is a bit tougher than yours, you neglect also
> >so mention that the disease spread largly due to the practices of the
> >Europeans and others in the areas (Most of whom where Christian)
> >in the first place. China and India do not record disease of that nature -
> >neither does America,
>
> The Black Plague began in China (it was on the list) and spread through
> India. Famine followed by disease brought down the Mayan civilization.
> You're simply incorrect.
I stand corrected on the Black plague starting in China - Not interested in
Famine, I t was somewhat common regardless. Disease is my main concern
>
>
> BTW, what "practices" of the mostly-anything Euopeans are you trying to
> allude to?
>
> >but the spread of
> >disease can be directly traced to the conquest and spread of Catholocism.
>
> This one is complete bulshit, my friend. The spread of disease can,
> however, be DIRECTLY traced the trade routes of merchants.
I take it you are disputing the disease brought to the Americas also? That is
the disease spead of which I am speaking
> Trade routes
> that could be established because *the Romans built paved roads throughout
> their empire*! Sorry, but if you want to attach blame to someone for the
> spread of ANYTHING in the Old World (and what a useless and pathetic hobby
> that is), blame the Romans for making movement between parts of the world
> easier. (Roman roads also greatly aided the spread of Christianity as
> well, you might note.)
>
> >I dont think it is a straw man with this amount of evidence.
>
> Factually incorrect evidence, on the other hand...
It seems so both ways
>
>
> >There is no doubt in my mind
> >that there were also other issus that effected life there, but throughout
> >the time you mention China and the Middle East were the most advanced
> >people in the world, and gaining.
> >
> >As for not speaking Chinese or Indian, perhaps you have not looked at
> >demographics lately, but most the world does speak Chinese or Indian.
>
> The original quote that started this was:
>
> > >We'd be living in space and in other solar systems by now were it not for
> > religion. One thousand years were wasted on its man hating beliefs. <<<
>
If you read my reply to that post, you will see that I stated that no certain
amount of improvement could be for sure - it would be guesswork, but that I felt
it would certainly have helped a lot (or something to that effect - I dont have
it)
> With China's overpopulation problems you'd think they'd have transfered more
> of their people to the Chinese outposts on Mars and the moons of Jupiter by
> now, wouldn't you?
>
Yea, China's had a tough few hundred years - too bad huh
> You might be interested in reading _The Lucifer Principal_ by Howard Bloom
> some time. He goes a little over the edge near the end, but it is a very
> good look at the dynamics of civilizations and their spread and competition
> for resources[1].
>
> -Prof. Tim
>
> [1] With lots of meaty footnotes too!
My brother, a somtimes poster here, has recommended it also - Ill erad it soon
Sodom
Bill Roh