David's top 10 (was: Re: virus: Virus Invades Cybernetics Conference)

Tim Rhodes (proftim@speakeasy.org)
Sun, 27 Sep 1998 01:59:54 -0700

David R. wrote:

>OK. Here are 10 ideas. And you and others can judge whether you agree with
>them, (even if it isn't totally black or white).

>1) It is best to have as many opinions as possible to select the best model
>and those opinions should "compete" against each other using arguments
>and/or experiments. And, the opinions you hold might not be the best, just
>because they're yours--feedback from others is useful.

>2)God (as imagined by what you imagine most Christians believe, not the
>kind of "god of spontaneous order and complex systems" that neo-Darwinists
>might believe) does not exist.

>3)There can always be someone better than you in anything.

>4)It is better to have a revolution by focusing on changing the structure
>of the mind (cause) as opposed to changing the structure of society

>5)Human immortality is conceivable and human cloning should be tried.

>6)The scientific method, which is the best form of inquiry we have, doesn't
>necessarily exclude shamanistic practices.

>7)Language is an exosomatic organ.

>8)Countries, corporations, and other large institutions aren't controlled
>by one or a few individuals, but emerge spontaneously as a result of the
>memetic environment.

>9)The best type of political structure is one which allows the most
>diversity with the least violence. And the way to create that structure is
>to form a structure that exists not because it's so great but just because
>it challenges other structures. This structure would be kind of like a "New
>World Order", in the sense that there's a general agreement that we should
>allow disagreement, unlike other "orders".

>10) We should worship Prof. Tim as Great Guru or Prophet.:-)

Okay, so here I go:

1) Part a: Not always. From my experience trying to organize groups of
people I can tell you that democracy works best the fewer choices you give
people. Ideally two, maybe three options. (And five is RIGHT OUT!)
1) Part b: Agree.

2) To pull a Clinton, depends on what you mean by "exist". But really, if
you mean what the lay-Christian believes, yes, I agree.

3) Blasphemy! This is the mighty TIM you are talking to!!! (Agree)

4) Disagree. Minds are shaped by their environment and revolutions of the
mind too easily co-opted by The Man.

5) Part a: Disagree
5) Part b: Why and to what end?

6) Disagree. Objective methods have not proven to be good tools for
evaluating subjective experiences. Science applied to art is folly.

7) Of which body?

8) Disagree. And Part A does not follow from Part B.

9) Disagree. Conflict is useful and fullfilling for the human spirit.
Revolutions are ugly and necessary. "New World Order" mutual tolerance is a
totalitarianism of apathy.

10) Send money and sex.

>Anyway, according to my theory, people into memetics would generally agree
>with *all* of these ideas. And people into a Platonistic meme-complex
>(characterized by unmovable truths) would not.

So where do I fall? 25% agreement, 41.7% disagreement, and 33.3% other.