virus: Re: Your pages...

Tue, 8 Aug 1995 14:44:10 -0600

Hello David,

Got a response for ya, thanx for writing.
From: David McFadzean
Subject: Re: Your pages...
Date: Tuesday, August 08, 1995 9:52PM

>>In many religions, "Salvation" is the bait, or promised reward
>> What is "Salvation"?

>As far as I can tell, salvation is the act of saving someone from
>eternal damnation.

I know that is pretty much what it is in the Bible. But I think the concept
has been twisted. God is merely providing a way for us to turn away from the
path we follow. We ultimately choose damnation, and if we could live a
sinless life we wouldn't have to worry about it. But without the spirit of
God we can't, so God provided a way, since He had to be just and stand by
what He said.

>>>Common meme-allergies include homophobia, paranoid anti-Communism, and
>>>porno phobia.

>>Are you sure it is a phobia (which means psychologically induced) or a
>>inbred bit of morals (In the soul)

>I don't think they are clinical phobias if that is what you mean.


>>I happen to be in the United States Air Force, that means I am military
>>personel. I assure you that my survival is consequential in the sense that

>>you think it is not. But I would gladly give my life for my country, my
>>or any individual if need be.

>If you would gladly lay down your life for your country, your God or
>any individual, then your life is clearly not consequential in the sense
>I meant.

Okay. But is that wrong in your opinion?

>>>Any of several currently-epidemic memes which predict catastrophic events

>>>for the year 2000, including >the battle of Armageddon, the Rapture, the
>>>thousand-year reign of Jesus, etc.

>>Who thinks that all this will take place in the year 2000? It could happen

>>in ten minutes or a hundred years from now, could it not?

>There are over 900 millenial groups in the US alone according to a guy
>that collects information on them. I guess it could happen any time, but
>there are thousands (if not millions) of people who think it will happen
>in the year 2000.

Okay. I would like to just go on note as to say that Christ said "No man
knows the hour or the day, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but
only the Father". (Mark 13) So, in reality if any of these people claim to
be basing their thought on the Bible, they cannot claim it as Biblical
truth. It is true that prophesy according to the Bible is comming true, and
it appears the "END TIMES" are near, of which I agree, from what I have read
and studied. But as the scripture says: No man KNOWS the hour or the day.

>>>An infection strategy in which a meme attempts to imitate the semiotics
>>>another successful meme. >Such as: pseudo-science (Creationism, UFOlogy);

>>>pseudo-rebelliousness (Heavy Metal); subversion >by forgery (Situationist

>>>detournement). (GMG)

>>What does Creationism try to mimic? It has been around the longest, so who

>>is copying who?

>True, I think it should read "creation science", not "creationism".

What does Creation Science try to mimic? Go to

>>>Since schemes compete for finite belief-space, tolerance is not
>>>a virtue, but it has >co-evolved in the ideosphere in much the same way
>>>co-operation has evolved in biological >ecosystems.

>>Tell me where massive cooperation exists in our world. Have you seen a
>>rabbit walk up to a tiger and say "Eat me if your hungry, I wouldn't want
>>you to starve". Or seen a dog not tell another dog "Get away from my

>Surely you have seen the video footage of the little birds that find food
>in the crocodile's mouth? There are literally thousands of similar
>cases of symbiosis in nature.

Yes I have seen this happening, and that I believe I missed your point, as
the concepts here arre different. I want to agree tolerance is not
necessarily a virtue :-)! I see though that co-operation if anything, is

>>>Conservatism: automatically resist all new memes.

>>Yes it is, resist until it is proven to be useful and true. Then gladly
>>accept it.



>>>The doctrine that there is no God. Atheists believe that there is
>>>insufficient evidence for God
>>>and/or that the concept of God is incoherent so its existence is

>>So were trapped in three dimensions are we? Can we not even broaden our
>>horizons? If everything were logical (assuming God didn't exist) this
>>would be boring! God exists, he is REAL and can be TANGIBLE. He needs not
>>conform to humanities little box. Besides, it is very possible. Especially

>>since we have so much evidence to prove HIS existance.

>I didn't say anything about being trapped in 3 dimensions or not broadening
>our horizons. Both concepts are independent of God.

Not really, God is not confined to our three dimensions, that is the
concept. Our minds have trouble rationalizing more than what they can see,
hear, touch, taste or smell.

>Why do you believe a Godless world be logical or boring? I don't see
>the connection.

The connection I am trying to make is, that the logic man wants, is the
logic that everyting is confined to what we can theorize or as above, see,
hear... We can only see what we can comprehend. If it doesn't make sense,
then often, we throw it out.

>Your assertions that god is real and tangible are just that, assertions,
>not arguments. I haven't come across any credible evidence for his
>but if you could provide some I will certainly be open minded.

I personally have felt, and seen the spirit of God move. Nothing tremendous
to the extent that most people demand seeing before they will believe in
God. I have seen God heal people, and the doctors have had NO explainaton!

>>>The doctrine that the existence of God is unknown and probably

>>Look in the Bible, he wants to know you, and he desires to reveal himself
>>you. The existence of God is known! I know him!

>I have looked in the bible. It is a very interesting historical document,
>obviously written by ancient humans. It is very similar to thy holy books
>other religions, have you looked at those?

Yes I have read and researched religions, actually at one time I did
research very avidly, now I just occasionally browse them. If you notice how
the other books are written, they try to parallel the Bible, it's not the
Bible paralleling them. The Bible has enough evidence stacked up for it,
pointing out that it is the oldest "religious" book, and that it in itself
is one of the oldest writtings of man. The interesting thing is, in it's
incredible age, it still lives on, like no other book has. It has never
died, and never will.

>>>1. The branch of semiotics dealing with the study of meaning.

>>What is the meaning of life? Or do you get to play Noah Webster and define

>>it for all of us less intelligent people?

>I believe the meaning of a given life is the effect that life has on
>the world, other lives, reality in general. I'm not trying to force my
>definition on anyone, if someone else finds it useful, that would be

Wouldn't that be the value of a life (not meaning)?

>>>A collection of causally related objects. All systems (except perhaps the

>>>universe) are part of a
>>>supersystem. All systems (except perhaps quarks) are composed of

>>So what binds the atoms together? We have no clue do we? Please don't tell

>>me quarks just happened...

>Atoms are bound together by the strong and weak forces. We do have a clue,
>but probably not the final answer. Scientists would like to know where
>forces come from. "God" is one answer, but not a very good one because it
>doesn't explain anything and raises more questions that it tries to answer.

He explains everything, but what questions does He create?

>>>Accurate with respect to objective reality. Since accuracy is not a
>>>discrete attribute, truth is
>>>necessarily a fuzzy concept.

>>Truth is defined by God. Just as you or I am.

>So truth is whatever God thinks? Do you believe God can change the past?
>Hint: modern Christian apologists have discovered that this is a very
>dangerous path to take.

God can do as He pleases. Truth is defined by the Bible, why, John 1:1 says
that God and His Word are one in the same, and that Jesus Christ is the Word
being lived out. Christ in turn said"I am the way, the TRUTH and the
life..." Therefore Jesus is truth, and Jesus is God.
I don't uderstand your hint.

>>>To understand a system is to possess a conceptual model that can be used
>>>accurately predict
>>>the behaviour of the system. A deep understanding entails understanding
>>>components of the

>>The Word of God has all the answers...

>What is the answer to this: who created God?

Answer: God said in multiple occasions that he is the Begining and the End.
He doesn't require a creator. He is infinite and we are finite, and have
been created, that is why we assume that God has to have a creator. Like I
said earlier, we place God in a little box, and expect that He conforms to
only what we can comprehend. He is greater and more mysterious and wonderful
than our minds are capable of fathoming. Besides, why would He need a
creator, if according to evolution we were not created?

>>>What is going on?
>>>Evolution on all scales.

>>Is evolution still taking place biologically?

>Yes, it is a continuous process though the results are not.

Your answer sounds slightly ambigious, but I could be reading it wrong.
Where is the evidence for this anyway?
Have I been sending you stuff on evolution, in particularly the questions I
am looking for answers to?

>>>What does it all mean?
>>>Things mean what they cause, i.e. the meaning is in the effects.

>>The Bible says, to every action, there is a reaction. God knew that before

>>science did. Wow...

>Not surprising since God knows everything, right?

Yes, since He created everything, I think He does. He is a very personal God
and knows everything about you! The Bible says He knows the number of hairs
on your head, and He knew you before you were formed in the womb. So, I
think if he is that micro, I am sure He knows macro too. Considering, His
word says he does.

>>>Why am I here?

>>God wants you here for a reason, ask HIM and find out!!!

>I did but he didn't answer.

Did you persue like his word says to. Look in the Bible, it says we are here
to learn to love Him. Yes, it is our choice, but He is trying to teach us
never the less. His Word says that many are called but few are chosen. He is
calling you, but you have to make the effort to say to God "choose me" and
He will be faithful to choose you. As you live a Godly life, you will begin
to see what he has planned for you...

>>>What should I do?

>>Ask God to forgive you for doing wrong, admit you've done wrong, and then
>>say ypu accept the forgiveness that only Christs death could attone for!
>>Then get to know him better.

>I will as soon as I think he exists.

It takes as much if not more faith to believe in evolution, than in God (my
opinion though). In all reality though, everything takes some amount of
risk, and it all depends on if you want to put your risk into God or not.
Should you wait till you think He exists? If you were to die in a car
accident tonight, God is not going to care if you think exists or not, you
will have to sit before His throne and face the fact that you chose to go
the way you did, and God will say " Go away from me, I never knew you".
Besides, God has shown evidence of himself, in his Creation, and through God
fearing people. If you choose not to see Him in that, then you've missed

>>>Create a meaningful life by influencing the world around you.

>>The only meaningful life is one in Christ. Why? The bible says, naked I
>>from my mothers womb, naked I will return...

>What about all the people that lived before Christ?

According to the Bible, before Jesus came and died on the cross, there was
no way of removing sin. So all those before Christ had to wait until Christ
came to pay the price that was required to fulfill Gods judgement. I
encourage you to read the Bible again, and you will see understand. I could
go on and on about this subject, but right now I have no, time. But if you
would like I will do some researching and give you the best I can.

>>I would appreciate a response!

>I appreciate your criticism. I would like permission to post your message
>and my response to the Virus mailing list, please.

Permission is granted, you are free to do as you please. All I ask is that
you son't twist or amnipulate words, or paragraphs, sentences etc.

I just hope and pray that you can look beyond the 3D world, beyond the past,
present and future, and that you would look into this for yourself, make it

Take care,
In Him,

I really appreciate your response, thank you.