RE: virus: Level 3 minds

Richard Brodie (
Mon, 28 Oct 1996 15:52:54 -0800

Tad wrote:

>When I said: "I hope this is not your intension to kill my honest
>just because it is your advice", Richard responded:
>>I LIVE to kill people's beliefs! I want to get you out of Level 2!
>Thank you Richard. What makes you think I am on level 2?

Your use of the distinction-meme "honest beliefs."
>On October 16 Richard wrote:
>>I've never been to Tibet, but there are quite a few people in Seattle
>>who live much of their lives in Level 3.
>At least we know there are some level-3 people in Seattle. Who are
>Can you share some examples? It may help better understand what you
>mean by

I'm working on a story that may make the concept clearer and more
accessible. In the meantime, please refer to Part III of Getting Past
OK, which covers the subject in great detail.
>(On the other hand, on planet TeTa we live very special lives. You
>never be able to grok it... Just believe me and follow what I say... I
>some USEFUL ways of getting what I want from you, as long as you
>believe me)

>Great concepts CAN be explained. If a person is capable of grasping
>them is
>a totally different thing. Any explanation "you are to stupid to
>it" is not an explanation at all, and it does not move us forward.

Those are your words, not mine.
>My first thought about Richard's three levels from the "Virus of the
>was Maslow's hierarchy of needs: (1) survival and (2) security needs =
>level-1; social needs = level-2; (4) self-esteem and (5)
>selfactulization =
>level-3. Can you relate to that, Richard?

I would say that Maslow's self-actualization is related to Level 3.
>Maslow also came up with two additional needs: the need for beauty and
>need for truth! The Truth is obviously level-4...

Both of those, if present in an individual (and I don't think they are
in everyone), would be components of all three levels of living.
>I want to get you up to Level 4, Richard!

What makes you think I'm below Level 4?
>Jason continues:
>>Either way, it seems that the truth is regarded as unimportant,
>>the usefulness of a meme being preferred. In fact, it seems that
>>to worry about the truth of a meme is fundamentally a level-2
>>concern. If it's useful, use it. If it happens to also be true,
>>great, but that's not really an issue. Truth may be correlated
>>with usefulness, but I suppose usefulness does not have to be
>>correlated with truth.

This is accurate as far as it goes.
>These are the Absolute Truth and Memetical Hipocrysy threads from May.
>I am
>glad you brought this back, Jason. I think this is important. I have
>same impression that Richard suggests that truth can be somehow "worked
>around". This is what I called "memetical hypocrisy" in May (using
>Nathaniel Branden's concept of self-esteem):

Hmm...I would say instead that "find the truth and use it to pursue
goals" is a Level-2 paradigm. In Level 3 you just do something
different, not "work around" the truth.
>"A belief in a rational world increases self-esteem and chances for
>as people like Bill Gates and his close friends must know very well.
>optimal selfish-meme strategy is to participate in spreading beliefs in
>'unknowable' world, but to secretly ignore them. This way more people
>lower self-esteem will follow them and work for them (longer hours).
>people are easier to
>control. They can be told what they *should do* and what a
>life' is. This is MEMETICAL HYPOCRISY."

I can't really respond to this, since it's all based on a world view
that I don't share with you.
>(BTW, Memetical Hypocrisy is illegal on planet TeTa).

Then who pays for the television programming?
>Having met Richard Brodie at the Dawkins' presentation in Seattle, I am
>Richard does it unconsciously. He is a charming and a very bright
>(if we could only level to the same level with level-3).

Does what unconsciously? Beat my wife? "Richard, stop avoiding the
question: do you or don't you beat your wife?" "But I don't have a
wife!" "Quit using Level-3 tricks, you hypocrite!"
>How USEFUL is it to regard truth as unimportant, Richard?

It has made all the difference, my friend Tad.

Richard Brodie +1.206.688.8600
CEO, Brodie Technology Group, Inc., Bellevue, WA, USA
Do you know what a "meme" is?