virus: Re: meme usefulness

Ken Pantheists (
Tue, 24 Dec 1996 06:38:12 +0000

XYZ asked:

So why hasn't this been done with memes? I thought memes was useful?
Actually, a better (and more fair) question is, "Can it be done at
all with memes?".

I suppose it hasn't been done yet because memetics is relatively new and
certain types of people tend to say it's just persuasion, brainwashing,
conditioning, preconditioning,

those are pop psych terms that have dulled peoples "tastebuds" to the
point that they cannot distinguish the difference between something new
and the rut that they've taught themselve to be in.

If you are asking if memetics can be applied to itself, of course-- we
had a whole discussion of that in the Meta-meme thread. But that line of
thought can only be useful to a certain point because it leads to a huge
abstraction. If you say memes are about thoughts, then what is the
thought that contains memes-- it's like asking What contains the

That level of abstraction is great if you want to sit in a lotus
position on a mountian in Nepal. But I thought you were interested in
how to *use* it?

You use it by getting off your can and applying it.

>>>You are implying that scientist, sociologists, political theorists
>>>could not be as "open-minded" as you which is just conceitedness. You
>>>aren't open-minded to memetics, you are gullible.

>>I don't see the connection between this and what I said.

>Not even a little?

No. As an arts eductor I believe in and celebrate the creativity and
open mindedness of all people (even lawyers) which I see displayed in
many ways on this list, in the studio, in their lives and in their work.
If I didn't I wouldn't be an instructor, I'd be a pedant. ( i am,
however, very stubborn)


That is what I have been trying to do. Did it ever occur to you that
maybe you have some inhibitions that prevent you from getting
together and "hashing out" (anti-science) memes?

No I have no inhibitions about that, since I have responded to every one
of your posts and continue to talk to you even though you have been a
very rude person.

(I still think you should apologize to Drakir for making fun of his
British slang word for papers-- your American culture *is* showing

if someone wants memes to be a science and not
just another fad, then they should learn more about what science says
about speculation, fantasy, logic, and methodology.

Who is that someone? You?

Well-- For know Memetics is working fairly well as an extention critical
theory (in my mind anyway :)

Who's to say that Scientists shouldn't learn more about the stability of
texts, discourse and context?

>>Wasn't there some point in history when all human thought and
>>endeavour was put toward one or a short list of ends?

>Yes, and it was called the Dark Ages.

Well, you aren't a very good American. Your country was founded on a
very short list of common ends-- Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of

For shame-- you probably burn flags don't you.

(we burn them all the time up here in Canada-- just to keep warm)

  Ken Pantheists