Re: virus: C of V: Another Religion

Tim Rhodes (
Wed, 29 Jan 1997 23:48:07 -0800 (PST)

I feel bad even honoring this with a reply, but some of these things just
don't sit right with me.

On 29 Jan 1997, David Rosdeitcher wrote:

> .... This validity of consciousness, in turn,
> implies that there is volition or free will, because if there was no free
> will,
> our thoughts would simply be a result of random neuronal patterns that
> would not
> necessarily need to correspond with reality.

Unless some of those patterns were based on outside stimuli. After all
you stipulate the existence of an external "reality" in the first axiom.
>From that we could just as easily conclude that all seemingly "random"
events, whether they be neural impulses or tarot readings, are subject to
the conditions inherent to that "reality" and as such flow from, and
reflect on, that "reality".

> The thoughts of someone on an
> acid
> trip or a lunatic in an insane asylum would be no closer to, or farther
> understanding reality than anyone else's thoughts.

Oh, my child, where to begin. In another culture those "lunatics" you
speak of would be called Shamans or Seers. And they would be the ONLY
ONES thought to truly understand "reality" or to have the perspective to
speak on it. You see, these traditional cultures realized the fluid
nature of reality. The oral tradition made them instinctually aware of the
fact that "reality" is the stories we tell one another and little else.
Today we tell stories that fit within the trial-and-error structure of
science and are limited by them. Or we tell the stories of peoples from
2000 years in the past and find "salvation". Tomorrow, who knows which
stories we will find to be better suited to constructing the "reality" in
which we wish to live. Your first axiom sets the stage for the story you
tell. It isn't the only possible First Axiom. And by no means the only

> It seems to me that the Church of Virus is promoting a mystical
notion by
> denying free will and claiming that the 'meme' is a higher power that
> individuals and societies.

Successful societies, and individuals, as well, control their memes rather
than being controlled by them. They exercise their "free will" by
manipulating the memes they pass on. Much in the way you manipulate the
ideas of memetics to enhance the argument that it functions as a religion.
One would dare say that your very statements are proof that the "spread of
ideas within oneself and throughout society" is within the control of the
user, rather than some "false higher authority".

You, yourself, are the proof of free will. Now dontcha feel special!!!

- Prof. Tim