virus: Rationality

Tadeusz Niwinski (
Mon, 24 Feb 1997 12:19:35 -0800

Drakir wrote:
>> From: David Rosdeitcher <>
>> The idea that 'our ability to think rationally' is only a meme can be
used to
>> put people in a submissive controllable state.
>I like this. I don't think this is the rationality meme that we've got here,
>it's a meme of "Rationality is a meme". Is that what's called a metameme?
>It is not the same as rationality being a meme though.

It's like the old question: "If God is omnipotent, can he create a rock, he
can't lift up himself?" If any replicable concept is a meme (then
"rationality" must be a meme), can we create a replicable concept of a
something ("rationality") which is not a meme?

Then we can make it a religion. Oops... This *is* a Church, isn't it?

as David McFadzean (96-11-08 9:33) wrote:
>Mr.Lynch politely declined my invitation to join this list,
>saying that he couldn't afford to be associated with anything
>containing the words "lucifer" or "church". Most disappointing.

CoV is supposedly design to promote discussions which are against
superstition, irrationality, and blind faith. It attracts people who, in
fact, do not believe in God (the one which requires morals) but are looking
for some magic to replace the void in their minds.

The only alternative to superstition is science. When we pretend it's a
religion we are open for all kinds of con-artists.

Back to David R:
>> When people accept ideas that
>> memes are like a higher power or that our thoughts are either controlled by
>> memes or arise through the interaction of memes, they become susceptible to
>> control by others, since it is generally accepted that thoughts and
actions are
>> not one's own, just a consequence of memes.

and Drakir:
>Aren't we constantly being manipulated by others? Aren't we constantly
>I think we are.

And they don't teach it at Harvard! The only Manipulation 101 Course is
offered at CoV (with fresh authentic juicy examples) :-)

Yes we are manipulative, I think all humans have it genetically built in.
Although we can learn about it, take it under a microscope, and control it.
This is what people like Richard Dawkins are doing and writing about. To
know how selfish we are designed to be, and knowing that, to live life
devoted to uncover the mysteries of reality, serving other people, rather
then parasitically exploit other minds. Finding truth (as soon as one
believes it's possible) can be a "flow" experience, better than drugs, fine
cognac, and cigars. As Daniel Dennett said in Darwin's Dangerous Idea: "Our
love of truth is surely a central element in the meaning we find in our lives".

We have a choice of using our manipulative minds to exploit others or to
uncover the truth about the world we live in. This is what this "battle" is
all about. A person who brainwashes this group with "the viral nature of
all ideas" and recognizing them as "dinky little viruses" is not a staw-man.
His name is Richard Brodie.

Regards, Tadeusz (Tad) Niwinski from planet TeTa (604) 985-4159