virus: Re: manipulation 101

Ken Pantheists (
Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:53:17 -0700

Tad wrote:

> > How would you feel if you were part of such a group? What would
> > YOU say? Would you risk your life to fight for your ideals or
> > assume they are all just "dinky ideas" and there is no hope. The
> > only fun left is vodka and jokes about sex, work, and real life.

Ok Ok. I'll fess up.

*I'm* the one who called memes "Dinky Little" things. Richard was
prepared to take the flack for it so I thought I'd see what happened.
(sorry Richard-- But it *is* fun seeing what happens to an idea when
people think you said it.)

To Tad:

I'm sorry that you have interpreted the phrase to mean that ideas are
dinky because they are insignificant or that I don't respect them.

(A weird interpretation, if you ask me. This is not an environment that
draws participation by people who don't like or respect ideas.)

"Dinky Little" was meant to illustrate how people can be dominated or
oppressed by ideas that are essentailly conquerable. Some ideas take a
long time to conquer or to give way to better more efficient memes that
are better for more people. An idea may have a whole economic and
military stucture supporting it, but it is still an idea, you are still
able to escape it, improve it elaborate on it. It is not Cast in Iron.

You are very good at manipulation, I guess that's why you are teaching
the course. I have to admit to using some of your tactics myself-- so
I'm no better. But your example actually gives more credence to the
"dinky little" arguement instead discrediting it.

I am left with the impression that you have *chosen* to deliberately
misunderstand the statement. How can you take my point of view (One I
share with others on this list)-- which is that understanding memes for
what they are (viral) enables one to free oneself from oppressive and
restrictive memesets and support and nurture the beneficial ones-- and
take this statement to mean that there is "no hope". ??? There is only
no hope if your goal in life is to make everyone think like you do. And
that's a pretty crappy goal.

  Ken Pantheists