RE: virus: Incredulity

David McFadzean (
Sun, 16 Mar 1997 11:33:42 -0700

At 11:37 PM 15/03/97 EST, Wright, James 7929 wrote:

>But what of the Godel theorem? If there are statements that exist in
>logic that cannot be proved true using logic, how shall you proceed?

There are an infinite number of true statements that can be proved
true, so don't worry about Godel until you run out of those.

>>But to examine the relative worth of logic itself you have to go outside
>>the system and see how it does compared to competitive systems in terms
>>of survival, happiness, effectiveness, etc. (In case it isn't obvious,
>>I think it does very well by those criteria.)
>What competitive systems are there? How well do they do? Which criteria
>would you use to decide?

Most, if not all major religions are competitive systems. They all
do rather well in terms of numbers of adherents and survival. As for
happiness and effectiveness of the believers, you would have to ask
them. (In my opinion any belief in an afterlife has an adverse effect
on this one, i.e. they would do things differently and better if they
knew that this life is the only one they get.)

As for criteria, I've already listed survival, happiness, effectiveness.
To elaborate, survival can be memes as well as self and descendants.
I equate effectiveness with meaningfulness: the ability to change the
world for the better, touch other lives, create the future, make a

David McFadzean       
Memetic Engineer      
Church of Virus