Re: virus: Fights

Dave Pape (
Sat, 22 Mar 1997 16:52:00 GMT

At 11:40 20/03/97 -0500, Reed wrote:

>In my model, "presenting" and idea "for consideration" is just that meme
>transmitting from one memosphere to another, and once in the novel
>memosphere, competing for resource with any memes that disagree with it.
>I understand (I think) your model. Do you see how it is allowing your ideas
>to manipulate you? "I'm just transmitting my memes."

Well, according to my model, my ideas /can't/ manipulate me because my ideas
are "me", and to say "I transmit my memes" is also inaccurate because "I"
/emerge from the interaction of/ some memes. I represent the philosophy of
Dandennettics. There's no separation between "my memes" and "I", so talking
about memes manipulating me, or about me transmitting memes, is misleading.
Heck it's hard to let go of the old ways, the old language.

>My model includes
>you and I as intentional figures. I talk to you. The ideas (memes) are

Hmm. In my model there's no such thing as primary and secondary to worry
about- the me is at one with the memes. Different models, basically. :)

>Uncivil? I? My dear, dear isn't you to which I am being
>uncivil, for I love you as a's those terrible, infectious, ugly
>green, nasty conflict-memes with gnashing teeth to which my ire is
>directed. [this is an ironic statement]

It's both, by my model... and yet neither ha ha ha 8)

>As for accuracy...I like memetics, too. But I don't think it "explains
>away" the phenomena of perceived free will...not yet, anyway. I still
>think in terms of "I", even if I'm pretty convinced that isn't accurate.

Oh yeh... in fact /I/ think in terms of an "I", but a loose, distributed,
fuzzy, emergent "I", rather than a stand-alone, fully-formed and primal "I".

>You're right, though. As I read it again , it seems a little agressive to
>me, too. The devil, err my NO! memes made me do it!
>Forgive me? I promise to read three chapters of the holy Dennett in
>pennance... ;)

Okay then... chapters 7, 8 and 9 of Consciousness Explained. Jeez I'm nasty.

>Seriously, though, I accept the criticism.

Gracious stuff, man. Peace!

Dave Pape
Always bet on the guy with the spine.

Phonecalls: 0118 9583727 Phights: 20 Armadale Court
Westcote Road
Reading RG30 2DF