Re: virus: Belief and Knowledge

Peter Charlot (
Mon, 7 Jul 1997 13:22:54 -1000

Wade T. Smith wrote:

>Tell, show, explain, invent these 'impressive results' of 'mastering the=20
>non-physical world.'
>Give me some reason to think you are not shoveling it into my truck.

Greetings Wade, David M., Prof. Tim and all!

This is very synchronistic. I left the group three months ago to do stuffs,
especially research
various things that were nibbling at me, namely the mystic angle on memes.
Also, I wanted to check out the relationship of Chaos theory to memes. To
return and find this thread is...well...rationally meaningless,
but mystically...well...meaningless as well.

Anyway, it seems that the mystic approach, especially the Sufi's, have been
totally on top of the meme reality for centuries. The basic line for all of
these folks is that memes are essentially, in Western terms, like Escher
drawings of steps, endlessly going nowhere, completely dependent on other
memes for their existence. They have no center. The rational mind is
subject to getting lost in endless details. We are using memes for purposes
that they weren't "designed" for. Namely, they were designed for how to get
through the jungle and find food. Memes have their place, but they are not
central to the whole operation. The "I" meme is especially suspect from the
mystic perspective. In that "I" defines itself as something that it is not,
namely an accurate description of itself and it's host. Sufi's have devised
various ways of tackling memes that we have much to learn from. They
specialize in micro-surgery using small stories that they insert into the
ideosphere. These little puppies hunt down specific memes and baffle them
into submission, similar to Koans. Similar to meditation, that, according to
Ch=F6gyam Trungpa, bores memes to death.

Anyway. I'm glad to be back aboard and look forward to interacting with all
of you.




Peter Charlot <> Volcano Village, Hawaii