Re: virus: Re: Existence

Eva-Lise Carlstrom (
Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:04:48 -0700 (PDT)

On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Brett Lane Robertson wrote:

(Anonymous wrote)
> On what basis do you determine reality, or is reality relevant to you? How
> do you distinguish the real from the imagined? Do you think you can
> imagine a pretty picture and magically make it so? Do you have the "God"
> dream? Do you think that imagined ideals can be realized? The ones
> who take this path invariably are those without a clue as to the
> nature of factual existence or how it works.

Imagining something does not make it so, of course (unless the thing
imagined is an intangible idea itself). But failing to imagine something
certainly prevents one from going about creating it effectively. Imagined
ideals are the only ones which can be realized on purpose.

> Why do you presume a first cause? That sounds like a preconception to me.
> ..and what is this mind without a brain? I would say it's probably the
> ultimate oxymoron. (Anonymous)
> Anonymous,
> Lets start with an example: "1+2=" we have a reality (one) and a

(rest of 1+2 discussion snipped)

> So, I assume a prime cause but not it's value; which is not a preconcieved
> notion, it is a preconcieved process (which processes itself)...and
> therefore, reality is a process--but not a chaotic one, it is ordered from
> "beginning" to "end" even if the value for beginning and end are not fixed.
> And related to the mind/brain question: Can you have a brain without mind?
> (I'm assuming that you will say yes...which states that neither is dependent
> on the other, mind can exist without brain if brain can exist without mind).
> How? Mind is a process (brain is a product,,,can you have a process without
> an end product)!

I have to speak up here, as this bit of argument makes no sense
whatsoever, but several kinds of nonsense. Yes, you can have a brain
without mind: a dead brain, or the brain of an animal functioning on a
simple enough level that we do not consider them to be conscious
(individual results may vary on this latter category). This has nothing
to do with the question of whether there can be mind without brain.
That's like saying that since I can have a computer but not send email, I
can send email without a computer. Non sequitur! The characterization of
brain as a product of mind is also bizarre; I would characterize
them in the opposite way, with brain producing mind, or, better yet, call
them different aspects of one phenomenon.