Re: virus: SM

David McFadzean (
Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:02:28 -0600

At 01:32 PM 9/25/97 -0400, Reed Konsler wrote:

>It depends on your tradition, doesn't it? Derrida laughs at your feeble attempt
>to separate the signified from the signifier. We are having a philosophical
>conversation. You want to begin of logical positivist turf. I'm postmodern
>Let's negotiate.

Do you really believe things disappear (don't exist) when no-one looks at them?

>The color of T-Rex is IMPLIED by all these things. You are making things
>difficult by confating levels of ontology. The color implied by T-Rex's skin
>is known in a different (not less reliable) way than the color of the apple you
>ate a week ago. The color of the apple made use of your eye. The color of
>T-Rex makes use of your theories about wavelength, chemistry, light, etc.
>to construct and illusion of what the color would have looked like if you
>could have seen it.

When you first brought up this example I wanted to suggest that we
stay clear of using color to make our points. It is so problematic
that is has its own discipline now: the philosophy of color. Why don't
we stick with something simpler, like did T-Rex exist before anyone
had a concept of <T-Rex>? I claim that yes indeed there existed many
of them around 65 million years ago. How about you?

>How does one prove the existince of a reality outside of perception? You're
>beginning to sound like a mystic.

I never suggested you could. Whatever happened to the discipline of

I am saying that is possible for something to exist before it is detected
(like galaxies before the 18th century).

>Do you mean objective as in:
>Identical for all observers using the same definitions.
>I don't accept that such a thing exists. I'm particulary worried about words
>like "identical" and "same". The concept of "definitions" and from whence
>they are derived (and if two people can ever agree on them) is also puzzling.

Maybe you should take it up with whoever said that.

David McFadzean       
Memetic Engineer      
Church of Virus