Re: virus: The evil machine!

Sodom (
Sat, 11 Oct 1997 08:32:04 -0400

Nathaniel Hall wrote:
> Sodom wrote:
> > Nathaniel Hall wrote:
> > >
> > > Sodom wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > KMO wrote:
> > > > <snip>
> > > > >
> > > > > > And
> > > > > > yeah, a choice between Al Gore, Jack Kemp, and Ross Perot ain't no
> > > > > > choice at all.
> > > > <snip>
> > > >
> > > > Just a little note about Al Gore, I have never met the man, but I
> > > > have a close and honest relative who went to College with the man at
> > > > Harvard. From what I hear, Al Gore is exceptionally honest, hard working
> > > > and intelligent. He may not be much fun at parties, but he is supposed
> > > > to be a real good guy. My feelings are that Clinton put Al in the
> > > > position he is in now, and if it weren't for that, Al's record would be
> > > > spottless.
> > > > A second note, I HATE AL's IDEAS REGARDING THE 1st AMMENDMENT. He
> > > > frightens me because he puts security for mental midgets above freedom
> > > > of speech - something I am sure most people here value quite a bit. If
> > > > Al would lay off of the encryption - censorship stuff, I would vote for
> > > > him in a second.
> > > >
> > > > Sodom
> > >
> > > Did you know in his book "Earth in the Balance" he accuses the automobile
> > > as being one of the most evil things mankind has ever invented? Next time
> > > you find yourself stranded somewhere because you have no means of
> > > transportation think of that and then think of Al Gore. He claims the
> > > greenhouse effect as an unquestionable given and labels as rotten anyone who
> > > says otherwise, but has the ocean level risen by any measurable amount?
> > > Think of that when you have to pay twice as much for the necessities of life
> > > because he has implemented his "chicken little" belief into law! You hate
> > > his assault on free speech and encryption and yet you still harbor support
> > > for this man? Its like saying "I would like to have a dog if only it acted
> > > like a cat!"
> > > The Nateman
> >
> > No I did not read the book, but I do believe that the automobile is
> > about the worst thing ever invented. I must admit that I am an avid
> > technologist, and support technilogical advancement at almost any cost;
> > However, you must admit, that we have reached a level of technology
> > where we could eliminate the need for fosile fuels.
> It will happen on it's own. We shall start running out of fuel at one point soon.
> What will happen? The price will go up and alternatives will become economically
> viable. Until then a lot of money, time , and effort is tied up in our fossil
> machines. Let the market do its work. It's amazing the kind of order it can
> spontaneously produce.
> > We have the
> > technology and power to use dozens of other sources for fuel. Don't you
> > believe it is foolish to rely on a limited resource to such a point that
> > if it went away all of a sudden the worlds economy would collapse over
> > night?
> It would be foolish, but it won't go away overnight: It's price will just go up
> and up and up until something cheaper is found.
> > Every light in every American house would go out because the
> > military would take all the nuclear power in our "best interests"?
> Your nightmare scenario can only happen if the market is not allowed to work
> > Come-on Nateman, you can see trends as well as anyone. You know the
> > potential for damage to the environment from pollution. I am not at all
> > convinced that fossile fuels are responsible for the slight warming we
> > have noticed, I am not sure it isn't a natural trend. I am sure that I
> > don't like the way L.A. looks when I drive there. I know that the
> > pollution in rivers and streams in Michigan is due to the auto industry.
> > Have you driven through Phoenix, NY, Chicago, and seen the devestation?
> First of all I should like to point out that in the socialist countries the
> devastation from pollution has in fact been much worse. (Al Gore is a socialist)
> Second of all consider this: Poverty kills. Check it out, rich people live longer,
> I know this isn't much of a surprise. All that pollution is here as the result of
> the creation of wealth. People are living longer than they ever have before
> because of the wealth that things like the automobile have made possible. Wealth
> that translates into longer and fuller lives despite the pollution. Pollution
> control is an expensive business: it is only in the rich countries that effective
> measures can afford to be taken. Before you condemn the automobile as a life taker
> think of all the wealth it has made possible and how many lives have been
> lengthened and improved by it. Its really a life extender! You probably use a car
> yourself to go to work: An example of wealth creation. Would you want to give up
> your car? I know at least I would not!
> > I worked for a short time in the auto industry grinding cam shafts and I
> > can tell you that these people are losers. Most can't read at all, few
> > have teeth and there are serious health hazards everywhere.
> Such losers would have died young is poorer times: At least now they can live long
> enough to loose all there teeth. (Probably too lazy to brush: it's cheap enough
> for even an extremely poor person to afford)
> > I flourished
> > there since I have a college education and was a Network Admin before
> > going there, so I got the cool CNC (computer numeric controlled)
> > grinders and could properly use the safety equipment. Of course, when my
> > skin started turning gray/green I quit.
> The power of the market. The paycheck was not worth the personnel cost so you
> moved on.
> > The oceans will rise, probably due to the ice age we are still getting
> > out of, and not because of pollution.
> I'm sure the chicken little types will preach that the sky is falling anyway.
> > Al may be many things, but I don't
> > think his honesty is in question. I cannot think of another politican
> > that I could somewhat trust.
> I would have given you that point in the past but Al's beginning to look like
> he's just another typical politician.
> >
> >
> > Sodom
> > HEAP
> The Nateman : I've seen AlGore for what he is and want nothing to do with him!

This will be hard to follow because of all the breaks, but I'll try to
be succinct:

Yes, the marktet will drive the prices up high enought to switch a some
point, however, prudence is valuable here. If you had to buy water like
you do gasoline, you would not wait til you were out to replace it. You
would be prepared long in advance. I know the economics of it well, but
the biggest reason it is not switched is not the cost of changing, but
the loss of money to the wealthy. Oil is power and just like politics,
people will not give up this power at ALL costs, including war and
destruction. We invaded Iraq not to insure democracy, or to save
Kuwaitis, but to insure our oil gets to us.

You are wrong in your facts about wealth and life expectancy. There is a
close correlation, and poverty does kill. But the longest lived people
in the world are the lower class Japanese who survive on rice and
vegetables. The U.S., which is wealthy, has the highest instances of
Obeciety, heart disease, cancer and a dozen other "rich" diseases which
keep our life expectancy lower than most other industrialized nations.

AS for the car, NO, i do not own one, and I doubt I will ever own a
gasoline powered car again. They are too inefficient and costly in my
opinion. I do miss them greatly - very greatly, and do occasionally rent
a car if I have out of town guests, or classes or something like that.
My transportaion costs total about 80.00 a month and I use public
transportation every day.

You seem to be a staunch capitalist, which although I do think that
capitalism is essential for a healthy freedom and growth, i also think
that it is prone to abuse by the greedy and selfish. The U.S.A uses 1/4
of the worlds resources. I would gladly give up a little of my "wealth"
to help bring the overall standards up, and i do not think that
capitalism is interested in equality for all humanity. i am interested
in global equality, and unless the U.S of A shows a little more "empathy
and vision" i doubt it is will change to a benevolent nation.