Re: virus: Public education vs. freedom

chardin (
Tue, 14 Oct 1997 11:04:28 CST+6CDT

> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 23:18:19 -0600
> From: Nathaniel Hall <>
> To:
> Subject: Re: virus: Public education vs. freedom
> Reply-to:

> <HTML>
> &nbsp;
> <P>chardin wrote:
> <BR>As for Dick and Jack books, why I know them quite well.&nbsp;
> Those were <BR>the very ones we used (I am very old, you see).&nbsp;
> When my son was 5, I <BR>placed him in a Christian school and they
> taught him phonics.&nbsp; He <BR>went through the 2nd grade using
> that system, and he has always been <BR>very advanced in his
> reading.</BLOCKQUOTE> You've heard the phrase "put your money where
> your mouth is"? Why not put your month where your money went. If you
> were willing to do the necessary sacrifices to do what you thought
> best for your child don't you think other parents can do likewise?
> You still paid the school taxes I take it? Does that seem fair or
> just to you? Your own pocketbook agrees with me, why not the rest of

I am part of the working generation remember? My son has been in day
care and kindergarten from age 6 months. He attended 4-year-old
kindergarten in a private day care, but because his brithday fell in October, he was not
allowed to start 5-year-old kindergarten in public school.
Therefore, my choice was to put him in a private school. Then, I did
not wish to make him repeat 5 year old kindergarten when he came of
age--so he went through the second grade, when I transferred him back
to public schools because even though they want let you in to begin
with, they will let you in later.

> <P>My daughter started kindergarten at a public school where she was
> <BR>taught "look-see" as I was.&nbsp; She started off much slower
> but she soon <BR>caught up and I think she and her brother are
> nearly the same.&nbsp; She <BR>is well advanced--far above grade
> level.&nbsp; So, in my very limited <BR>experience, I can't tell a
> real difference.</BLOCKQUOTE> Girls generally do better with the
> written word. Not a good comparison. <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;
So you favor segregated education? Boys in one room or school and
girls in another? Obviously, if they learn differently, this would
be ideal.

> <P>Schools have a lot of room for improvement, I'm just not sure
> <BR>completely abolishing them would be the answer.&nbsp; I used to
> favor the <BR>voucher system, but on more careful consideration, I
> don't think it <BR>would work.&nbsp; Children who had a voucher
> would, nonetheless, be priced <BR>out of better schools, because the
> schools would charge the voucher <BR>amount, plus other fees--fees
> which would price children from lower <BR>economic families
> out.</BLOCKQUOTE> Why worry if the Jones are getting a better deal?
> You want your kid to learn and the market would provide. Consider
> cameras for example. Look at the bewildering amounts of choices.
> From the very expensive to the very cheap but they all take
> pictures! The open market would do the same for education.
> (Universities were a good example but government subsidies are
> slowly turning them into blandness now)

I wouldn't worry at all if I were a part of the Joneses, unless I had
some care for all children, not just my own.

> are they poor at reading and writing?&nbsp; Is this the school
> <BR>system's fault?&nbsp; One woman I know swore that the school we
> went to <BR>had teachers who did not care and taught her
> nothing.&nbsp; She was in the <BR>same room as my younger sister,
> yet my sister could read above her <BR>grade level for years, an
> excellent reader.&nbsp; They had most of the <BR>same teachers
> throughout grade school.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; One thing is for certain,
> I <BR>think public education did an excellent job in teaching you
> the <BR>basics and probably much, much more--judging by your
> interactions <BR>with me. <BR>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE> You unwittingly
> make my point for me! My English out of public schools was terrible!
> Even in college I got a "D" in the subject. It was not until latter
> in life realizing it's importance that I made the effort, privately,
> to improve! (Plus I got a good spell checker for these posts!)
> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;I <BR>agree that we need to have
> teachers who are committed--not just in it <BR>for the job.&nbsp; We
> need students who want to learn.&nbsp; Yet, I cannot see <BR>just
> disposing of the whole system, which, overall, I think still
> <BR>works.&nbsp; You are an example, and many of the young people I
> see are <BR>examples.</BLOCKQUOTE> I'm not an example.&nbsp; Did you
> see any of the beliefs I talk about here taught in the public
> schools? I learned them somewhere else. Somewhere else in spite of
> the schools indoctrination. For a site on&nbsp; meme's allot of
> folks here don't realize it seems just how badly infected by public
> schools they have become! <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>I know that you must
> be a big fan of Milton Friedman's but, <BR>unfortunately, everything
> isn't black and white as Friedman presents. <BR>I just don't want to
> go back to the days when people have to make <BR>their marks with an
> "X" because they can't sign their names.&nbsp; Chardin</BLOCKQUOTE>
> &nbsp;Milton Friedman! I didn't learn about him in the public
> schools I can assure you! Very astute of you to see his influence. I
> read his book at the suggestion of my Dad while in high school.
> The&nbsp; drivel that I was being taught as economics in school
> melted away in a few short pages of that man's book's ! <BR>Signing
> your name with an "X" indeed! You still can't see the power of the
> market. Too bad those public schools poisoned your mind so badly!
> <BR>The Nateman <BR>&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp;
> <BR>&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp;</HTML>
How interesting! Any time I disagree with you, it is become I have
learned drivel in public school! What did you learn in public school
that was so horrible?

My main complaint with public school is that it is bureaucratic and
tends toward a foolish consistency. I've encountered it many times
in dealing with school administration. No one is more aware than I
of how what a problem this is.

About the ideas you espouse? That is ALL I heard in school. The
free market place, the free market place...I thought I would hear
that until I puked. We fight wars because we are good and just and
true and the slant eyes are all commies. If you didn't gear your papers to agree with a
particular teacher you would get an "F." My sister and I were
talking the other day and she said " I remember that they would
assign a paper on Vietnam and if we didn't turn in a position
JUSTIFING" our being there, we would get a bad grade."
I once had a civics teacher who give me a "U" in conduct because I argued with him that all union
members were not communists. My dad happened to be in the union and
was immediately labeled a "communist" by this man. I once had a
princple of a school tell me that it was a good thing I wasn't a boy
because he would have to replace the door--he said he would have
knocked me through it! This was because I took a petition to him
asking for the right for girls to wear pants. He was a very generous
man, however, he said that girls could wear "pantsuits" on Fridays.
I think I've seen a lot of problems in public
schools--funny, but those gangs you talk about was not the problem in
the school I was in. Gangs cannot exist in absolute tyranny.

But the kids who go to private schools can relate their own tales of
horror--we are not alone.

Yet, in spite of all my bad experiences I am not prepared to say that
we should scrap it all. All human institutions have failings. We
need to address the issues and try to improve--not destroy. Chardin