Re: virus: The story-telling ape

Sodom (
Mon, 27 Oct 1997 12:23:06 -0500

David McFadzean wrote:

> At 12:54 PM 10/23/97 -0400, Reed Konsler wrote:
> >polarizing. My position is closer to the one Dennett
> >expresses in _Darwin's Dangerous Idea_:
> >
> >"If you want to teach your children that they are tools of God, you
> had
> >better not teach them that they are God's rifles, or we will have to
> stand
> >opposed to you: your doctrine has no glory, no special rights, no
> intrinsic
> >and inalienable merit. If you insist on teaching your children
> >falsehoods---that the Earth is flat, that "Man" is not the product of
> >evolution by natural selection---then you must expect, at the very
> least,
> >that those of us who have the freedom of speech will feel free to
> describe
> >your teachings as the spreading of falsehoods, and will attempt to
> >demonstrate this to your children at our earliest opportunity. Our
> future
> >well being---the well being of all of us on the planet---depends on
> the
> >education of our descendents." (p. 519)
> As far as I can tell, Dennett's position is closer to mine then yours.
> >I think it's foolish to deny people their faith on the conceptually
> >suspect grounds that it is possible to live without faith of some
> I am not denying people anything at all. They are welcome to base
> their life on faith. Look in the mirror, Reed. The only one here
> denying anything is you denying me my right to express my opinion
> on the merits of faith or lack thereof.
> >I don't happen to belive in God. If you do, that's fine. But
> >I do not accept that arguements based upon revelation are
> >PARTICULARILY worthy or meritorious. The theories
> >of Jesus as expressed in the Bible stand beside those of
> >Mohammed, John Rawls, Richard Brodie, and David
> > be judged by each of us. Scientific
> >constructions of reality are not "better" than religious
> > is simply a question of what ideas are useful
> >to you in the pursuit of your life's goals.
> Scientific constructions are better *given* certain
> life goals. I am not telling anyone what their life goals
> should be. If they happen to be the same as mine, then I
> say let's get together. Why should you deny my attempt
> to build a community?
> >I think it only SEEMS like a good idea to hold up reason and
> >critical thinking as a sort of "defense mechanism"
> >against faith. To me, this is like treating disease with
> >generation after generation of antibiotics, each one
> >more sophisticated, dangerous, expensive, and
> >complicated than the last. Eventually, the rapidly
> >evolving viruses will develop immunities to every
> >defense. TB is making a comeback, and so is
> >fundamentallism. All we are doing is breeding
> >more and more virulent and aggressive versions
> >of the infections.
> Last time I checked we weren't killing any fundamentalists.
> (Unfortunately I can't say the same for the fundamentalists
> not killing people that don't share their beliefs.)
> >In the end, the answer to mental well-being is the
> >same a physical well-being. Eat well, get a lot
> >of rest. Keep active and in contact with your
> >community. Find meaningful work and purpose.
> No arguments here.
> >Love your neighboor.
> I don't think unconditional love is a good thing, but
> otherwise, sure.
> --
> David McFadzean
> Memetic Engineer
> Church of Virus

Sorry to put in the whole quote, but it important that this string is
followed. I have to agree with David here. It seems like Reed likes the
"I'm OK you're OK" doctrine, and feels that religion and reason can
agree on what "Good" is. I don't see how that is even remotely possible.

>I think it's foolish to deny people their faith on the conceptually
>suspect grounds that it is possible to live without faith of some kind
i don't want to deny them their faith either, but if they are willing to
threaten my choice NOT to have any faith, then they might as well be
yelling "WAR" at the top of their lungs. Reed, I HAVE NO FAITH IN
ANYTHING I never have as long as I can remember. To live without "faith"
is bliss, and is more rewarding than I can describe.

And although we have seen an increase in religious fundamentalism here,
the overall church roles are down, and there is a larger percentage of
Athiests than at any other time. Eventually religion will be a minority
As for the "Dennett's" quote, I agree whole heartedly.