RE: virus: Re:Core beliefs

Wade T.Smith (
Fri, 26 Dec 97 09:50:25 -0500

>> >> (famous) 'willing suspension of disbelief' rather than a 'willing
>> >> submission to belief' by the observer.
>> >>
>> >What's the difference?
>> The difference between suspension and submission, I would have
>> thought,
>> would be obvious.
>The difference between the words is obvious. What I don't
>see is the difference between the phenomena to which you
>are applying these words in this case.

Then I can only ask that you examine the phrases more carefully. They are
quite succinct, I think. It involves the mind one brings to the show. And
yes, one is true and the other false.

>To me, all these make up one coherent causal network, with
>beliefs to some extent determining language, social forms,
>rituals, etc, except for the Buddhist/memetic perspective in
>which an individual is in thrall to memes that they really
>"believe in", and not to those that they merely use to further
>their (the individual's) own ends. (Where "my" ends can be
>shared, to the extent that they're pro-social, so "my own ends"
>are not necessarily selfish.)

I don't for a second think beliefs are that causal. They are too
fleeting, too artificial, too manipulatable. And this sudden and hardly
unnoticed elevation of Buddhism to the 'ultimate answer' is yet another
obsequious proselytization, yes? I for one am not convinced. But you knew
that. Have you honestly heard yourself here?

>Ah, you mean a meme-complex!

No- I mean a dramatic presentation. Tragedy, in the Aristotelian sense.
Yes, a specific 'meme-complex', although I do not accept the phrase, due
to the inclusion of an unknown (meme).

>But I still don't know why
>some are true and others false. Unless it's because you
>think that religions depend on people really believing, in
>which case you'd be wrong in the case of Buddhism, but
>right in my eyes to a significant extent about most/all of
>the others! (Well, of the modern religions, anyway, but
>let's not get into that one right now.)

Again the inclusion of Buddhism as The Great And Unique Answer. Again the
'you must be wrong where ** is concerned' breathless knee-jerk.

Are there Born Again Buddhists? May I nominate you for magnate?

OK- putting aside my feeling that you are afflicted with a dogmatic
blindness here- is buddhism really a willing suspension of disbelief, or
is it, like every other religion, a willing submission to belief? (I
actually think you are right about it being different in this regard....
I just disagree as to _how_ different.)

Wade T. Smith | "There ain't nothin' you | shouldn't do to a god." |
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