Re: virus: meme (WAS: re: virus: Spirituality)

Tim Rhodes (proftim@speakeasy.org)
Wed, 29 Jul 1998 02:06:11 -0700


Okay, I'll admit that its been a good month since I kept up to date on the
list and many objectionable things have slipped throught the cracks in that
time. But retracing those steps for a moment:

Wade wrote:

>The meme itself, if we want it to be found, will not be found through
>statistical arrays of cultural differences, any more than any gene has
>ever been found through statistical arrays of toenail length. Go inward,
>young men....

I suggest you take a closer look at the history of genetics, Old Man. We
are no where near even envisioning what the "double helix" of a meme might
look like, let alone trying to find one. At best, we are only capible of
studying a memes "heredity" to this point. (And even our skills at that are
rough at best!) We do not even understand what the behavior of a neural
switch that might constitute a meme would be (if you believe that is where
they're found--personally I don't), and as such are in no position to go
looking for... now what exactly again?!? How would we recognize it even if
we found it, not knowing what it should look or act like! Hmmm?

Genetics did not begin with the discovery of the gene and then move on from
there. It took many years of study to understand the *nature* of the gene,
what it did and how it might do it, before the theoreticaly-postulated
gene's behaviors could be predicted well enought to look for evidence of
one. Like black holes, genes, and atoms, memes must first be modeled in
theory before one has even the foggest clue what to look for to regognize as
signs of their presence.

Without that background understanding of the actions and reactions of memes,
the quest for "the meme" would be as fruitful as a quest for black holes
using only visible light and a telescope.

(BTW, Wade, what is the fingerprint of a meme, this memetic "black hole's"
gamma and x-ray radiation, if you will? What constitutes evidence of a
meme? If you want to call for a quest, you'd better be sure you know the
distinguishing markings of that grail before you start knighting people left
and right!)

-Prof. Tim,
who still thinks memes are things which exist in systems, not minds, and
that looking for them "inside" is an unmitigated bunch of poppycock--and
poppycock with less supporting evidence to back it up than even astrology
has, to boot!