Re: virus: C of V: Another Religion

Vicki Rosenzweig (
Thu, 30 Jan 97 10:16:00 PST

Alternatively, axioms are the things you assert because you believe
them to be true but cannot prove them. For example, Euclidean
geometry asserts the existence and properties of parallel lines;
other geometries make different assertions, and one of them is a
better description of the planet on which we live than Euclid's.

"Existence exists" is very tempting, but the only one of Rand's axioms
that I have seen demonstrated to my satisfaction is that I am aware of
my own existence. (That goes back at least to Descartes's "cogito
ergo sum.") As for "things are what they are," that may be valid, but
it's not terribly useful: it doesn't give us any necessary connection
between what is and what we perceive, or say anything about the ways
in which things change.

From: owner-virus
To: virus
Subject: Re: virus: C of V: Another Religion
Date: Wednesday, January 29, 1997 5:33PM

At 02:43 PM 1/29/97 EST, David Rosdeitcher wrote:
> Objectivist philosopher, Ayn Rand, made an important discovery: the 3
>philosophical axioms. Axioms are basic concepts that are implicit in any
>statement about reality. Rand's 3 axioms are: 1) Existence-an external
>exists. 2) Consciousness-there is an awareness of existence.
>are what they are-A is A. These are axioms because and attempt to deny them
>would be self-refuting.

I like the formalization. Complete, concise, and eminently logical. On the
other hand, it's depressing when you realize that some people need a formal
definition for an immediately obvious, universally held truth (which is
essentially what "axiom" means).

> It seems to me that the Church of Virus is promoting a mystical notion
>denying free will and claiming that the 'meme' is a higher power that
>individuals and societies. While the 'meme' is a useful concept to
>and influence the spread of ideas within oneself and throughout society,
>Church of Virus is using 'memes' to create a new religion in which one
>higher authority is replaced with another. I am suggesting that there is
>something in the brain that is not understood yet which can accout for free
>will. What do you think?
> -David

I think you're misrepresenting CoV. The "Church" part of the title, if I'm
not mistaken, is meant as a sort of tounge-in-cheek sub-reference to one of
humanity's most powerful and enduring meme-complexes: religion. I think you
got it right when you said:

..the 'meme' is a useful concept to understand and influence
the spread of ideas within oneself and throughout society...

My take on the tone and inferences of the literature don't correlate with
your interpretation. On the other hand, I haven't read it all....

The Metasystem Transition History of the "Dan Plante" System

initial conditions = data (conception)
control of data = information (conception to puberty)
control of information = knowledge (puberty to marriage)
control of knowledge = wisdom (marriage to divorce)