Re: virus: Do People Create?

Dave Pape (
Tue, 4 Feb 1997 00:21:52 GMT

At 14:00 03/02/97 -0500, Reed wrote:
>Do people create?
>Actually that isn't my question and frankly I don't care what the answer
>is. I don't even think there is one answer. I have a meta-question.
>How does the question above not dissolve into an argument over the
>definition of the term "create"?
>Do people discover?
>Do people invent?
>Does an objective concrete reality exist?
>For these and a number of other questions many people (including, I
>hesitate to admit, myself) have crossly insisted something like:
>"Yes, but these words must have some meaning! You can't just use them any
>way you like. We have to have some consensus or else we aren't going to
>get anywere. If you don't accept [insert axiom/definition here] then you
>are just mentally fucked up [or, as seems to be in vogue these days
>'logically inconsistent']. I can't imagine how you can live without
>Such statements are (empirically, we've seen it) unproductive. No one gets
>convinced of anything. Eventually one or the other "sides" in the argument
>gets exausted and the thread dies unresolved.
>Can anyone create, invent, discover, assemble, or otherwise bring into my
>perception some way to avoid this?

What I Think "Meaning" Means by Dave Pape

x means y
x and y are memes with a large proportion of sub-memes in common.

Their physical substrate would be two meta(metameta)groups of neurons with
many neural linkages between them... kind of.

For MY definitions of "creation", "invention" etc., see my last post...
since we're a memetics list here, why not try to define these controversial
terms memetically?

Dave Pape
The memetic equivalent of a G3 bullpup-design assault rifle blowing a full
clip at my opponent. (Alex Williams 1996)

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