Re: virus: God and Level-3

Tony Hindle (
Sun, 30 Mar 1997 22:35:47 +0100

In message <>, David
McFadzean <> writes
>> From: Tony Hindle <>
>> Date: Saturday, March 29, 1997 8:29 PM
>> I suppose I'm thinking that a belief can change reality
>> here.
>Not always. Sure beliefs can be self-fulfilling to some extent
>but beliefs certainly do not govern objective reality.
I agree (Ok I can think of a counterexample, When you are
drunk, you get a meme inside you that causes you to sleep with a
sheep. The next day you are lying next to a sheep, the sheep is
part of objective reality that has changed (moved from the farmer's
field to your bed) and the meme "i want to shag a sheep may have
long left your memcology). A little absurd perhaps, but consider
the sum total of all memetic activity on earth, it's caused
orbiting satelites and ships to leave the solar system. Has the bit
of objective reality we call the solar system been changed? Ok so
we are part of objective reality that is taking it's predetermined
cause, I agree Dave we need the separation between objective and
subjective reality. Sorry I've waffled a bit.
>> Ok. The true maximum equals 0.9*subject's belief.
>Doesn't that break down for totally unrealistic beliefs?
Yes. Try this
True maximum equals f(subject's belief).
The function f may well be intractable.
>What if C believes she can achieve a trillion significant
I agree that experience of the world (especially no. of
goals achieved vs initial belief) will provide feedback to stop
escallation of beliefs. Well unless you've really lost it (topical
example heaven cult).

Anyway I've drifted as ever (no choice). Earlier Dave you
accepted that some beliefs can be self fullfilling.
>Sure beliefs can be self-fulfilling to some extent
If you also accept that some goals are worth achieving,
doesnt it follow that sometimes a deliberately self-inflicted
dillusion can be beneficial to a subject.
This is not to say that the next question is an easy one,
how does one deliberately commit self deception? Personaly the
closest I've ever come to an answer is in Richard's book.

Oh the doorbell has just sounded, it's my mates comming to
play. I'll get back to all these intriguing matters asap.
A thought about crystalising hope as opposed to
reverberating doubt (hofstadter) has just entered my mind but I
havent got time to check it with you guys, unles I realise its just
bollox I will when I can get back on line.
Tony Hindle.
Who is deliberately exposing himself to memes he wants
to take on board even if as yet he hasnt at least he's
beginning to believe that he can.