Re: virus: Limiting

Marie Foster (
Tue, 09 Dec 1997 14:35:53 -0800

rpc man wrote:
> >I remain mystified by the requirement that is made
> >that there must be evidence to support belief.
> As do some of us who need at least a milligram of evidence before
> we believe in anything.
> >Are you asking me for my evidence?
> I think he was, and I'm certainly curious as to not only what your
> evidence is but also how you define your god.
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A simple response is that God is love. (Another thing I believe you
would agree that there is no evidence for in the same sense that you
require for god.)

A larger definition is that god is miracle, majesty, and mystery.

There seems to be an expectation among some members of this list that
the only legitimate miracle is something beyond the boundries of
physics.... I wonder about this. One might say that god has shaped the
world as one that follows physical laws. So why would a miracle not
also follow the same laws? Was the *fire* of the sun a miracle before
we understood it to be nuclear fusion? You seem to want to restrain god
to your view of things...

I am sure you have a counter argument.

I doubt that there would be any disagreement between us that the
universe contains much majesty, and that mystery still remains.

In fact, probably the best *evidence* that I have (in your terms) is the
most definate knowledge by the best scientists that the more we know
about *a thing* the more mystery we find.

Everywhere I look I see evidence of god. This view has really changed
me in that I used to be pretty miserable. Now, all I have to do is stop
and take a deep breath and I feel in contact with that reality. It was
a mind shift to me. I no longer see god as separate from me. Nor do I
see you or anyone on the list as separate. Yes, we have different
houses (bodies) as this is the way we organize our existence here. But
I believe we really and truly are not separate. Can I prove it? Well,
statistically I believe so. But I do not know if you will accept
statistical evidence into your sphere of *proof*.

But look, I have no need to convert you to my way of thinking or feeling
for that matter. I am quite content to accept you and your views as
legitimate in your frame of reference. AND I respect you as a fellow

What got me upset is that someone suggested here that anyone who thought
differently was mentally inbred... That was pretty insulting on a
personal level.

I have always felt that when one really can not defend a postion on a
rational basis they will descend to personal attacks. And another
typical response in the evolution of any religion is to separate the
*true* believers from the *others*.

I came here expecting to find people who understood or were looking for
an understanding of memetics. How ideas frame our existence. Certainly
theism and atheism and agnosticism are memes.

You have the right to choose the memes you wish to define you. I have
the same right. Respect is all I ask. What is it that you want from